[Ainseri]

Hey,

I've been trying to come up with an idea for a realistic and persistent economic system for deployment in a strict roleplay gamemode. I think it'd certainly be a new and interesting dynamic to gameplay and would provide a fun and challenging element to the balance of of players' wealth. As of current, all roleplay gamemodes that I have seen just inject money into the world from nowhere at random times, and it disappears into thin air at other places.

It'd be so much more interesting and dynamic if when someone was getting rich, it meant that someone somewhere else was losing money. All money comes from somewhere and goes somewhere. A true, natural and (hopefully) self-sustaining economy is born. Stocks, inflation, and other natural elements to the economy would provide players with many roleplay opportunities based around finance.

I'm also excited for this because it opens the doors for proper taxes, with tax evasion and such. Drug dealers will have to set up business fronts to launder their money, or they risk being fined and arrested and having their operation compromised. If these businesses draw too much attention for any reason, and get audited by the tax agency, close investigation may reveal discrepancies in tax payments. This opens up a vast majority of roleplay opportunities for organized crime. And that's without even getting started on counterfeiting money, insurance and so forth...

However, I'm wondering how to plan out this system. What considerations to be taken into account, feature ideas and potential problems do you see?

[X3nZ]

One thing you should take into consideration is,

When you are setting your economy up, make sure you don't mess your prices up, like for example, I seen this one server that had a 8 Room Luxury House for 40k, but a 2 room bedsit for 65k.

If you were to buy a 2 Room Bedsit IRL, it would be much cheaper than an 8 Room Luxury.

I don't know if this really helps ya, but I figured I'd drop this in.

[Ainseri]

Quote:

Originally Posted by X3nZ One thing you should take into consideration is, When you are setting your economy up, make sure you don't mess your prices up, like for example, I seen this one server that had a 8 Room Luxury House for 40k, but a 2 room bedsit for 65k. If you were to buy a 2 Room Bedsit IRL, it would be much cheaper than an 8 Room Luxury. I don't know if this really helps ya, but I figured I'd drop this in.

I think you misunderstand. This is more about the persistent and physical flow of currency between players (and virtual entities/organizations where necessary) in the city. Properties that will be constructed will most likely be sold with consideration of the cost of materials, manpower and equipment/vehicles required to construct it. Properties that are already constructed will likely be owned by the government or one or two designated real estate agencies and then sold at a price dependent on the location and the provisions it has, such as whether or not it has a garage, how many rooms it has, capacity for appliances, and location in the city.

[Ainseri]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y_Less Existing systems inject and remove money because that is a better model of the real world. Let's say you have 1000 players on at any one time - that's still less than 0.001% of the San Andreas population, let alone the world! Taxes come from other people, there are tourists, out-of-towners, multi-nationals and all sorts of other things that result in money, as you say, being injected and disappearing. If you only have a fixed pool it will eventually be very hard for new players to do anything at all.

Factors can of course be extrapolated where necessary. The goal is to create a realistic representation of the economic model present in America, not necessarily a fully in-depth simulation. One of the things I'm struggling with is where new players' initial funds will come from. I'm pretty sure they'll come out of the government's budget as some kind of unemployment benefit or something, but how can I make sure that their budget doesn't get run dry if too many players register but do not play? Also, I love the idea that new players have to work to make something of themselves. The American Dream! Fuck refunds, and grinding on checkpoint-based missions for cash.

[Finn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ainseri Factors can of course be extrapolated where necessary. The goal is to create a realistic representation of the economic model present in America, not necessarily a fully in-depth simulation. One of the things I'm struggling with is where new players' initial funds will come from. I'm pretty sure they'll come out of the government's budget as some kind of unemployment benefit or something, but how can I make sure that their budget doesn't get run dry if too many players register but do not play? Also, I love the idea that new players have to work to make something of themselves. The American Dream! Fuck refunds, and grinding on checkpoint-based missions for cash.

The starting wealth represents the wealth your character has made before it was registered, it doesn't come out of nowhere. When you create a new character, let's say a 25 year old male, you skip 25 years of your characters life and you expect him to not have done anything at all during those years?

[Ainseri]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn The starting wealth represents the wealth your character has made before it was registered, it doesn't come out of nowhere. When you create a new character, let's say a 25 year old male, you skip 25 years of your characters life and you expect him to not have done anything at all during those years?

That's not my point. My point is, where does that money tie into the persistent economy of the city? If every time a new player registers, $25,000 is added into circulation, there's going to be a lot of problems.

[Mauzen]

I once wrote about something like that, in form of an "item-based" economy with different economy levels. https://sampforum.blast.hk/showthread.php?tid=256829
If realized the right way this would create a nearly closed circuit. The open end at level 1 could be closed by loans paid by the owner.

[Ainseri]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauzen I once wrote about something like that, in form of an "item-based" economy with different economy levels. https://sampforum.blast.hk/showthread.php?tid=256829 If realized the right way this would create a nearly closed circuit. The open end at level 1 could be closed by loans paid by the owner.

Exactly what I've been thinking of: that part is simple, it's the money/currency part I can't decide on.

[Finn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ainseri That's not my point. My point is, where does that money tie into the persistent economy of the city? If every time a new player registers, $25,000 is added into circulation, there's going to be a lot of problems.

Well, I just explained how the money comes in the server RP-wise. lol

The easiest way I could think of is the following:

You could spread the spawned money into the base prices of everything and every time something is bought decrease the percentage from the total spawned money count.

i.e.

Code:

House prices   += 2.5% of spawned money
Vehicle prices += 2.5% of spawned money
Weapon prices  += 0.5% of spawned money
Food           += 0.05% of spawned money

1.
2 players register and each one "spawns" $5,000.

Spawned money = $5,000 * 2 = $10,000

Code:

House prices   += $10,000 / 100 * 2.5  = +$250
Vehicle prices += $10,000 / 100 * 2.5  = +$250
Weapon prices  += $10,000 / 100 * 0.5  = +$50
Food           += $10,000 / 100 * 0.05 = +$5

A house used to cost $15,000, now it costs $15,250.
A vehicle used to cost $5,000, now it costs $5,250.
A weapon used to cost $250, now it costs $300.
A meal used to cost $50, now it costs $55.

2.
3 vehicles, 5 houses, 100 weapons and 100 meals are bought by random players.
= (2.5 * 3) + (5 * 2.5) + (100 * 0.5) + (100 * 0.05)
= 7.5 + 12.5 + 50 + 5
= 75%

Spawned money -= 75% = 10,000 - (10,000 / 100 * 75)= $2,500

Code:

House prices   += $2,500 / 100 * 2.5  = +$63
Vehicle prices += $2,500 / 100 * 2.5  = +$63
Weapon prices  += $2,500 / 100 * 0.5  = +$13
Food           += $2,500 / 100 * 0.05 = +$1

A house now costs $15,063.
A vehicle now costs $5,063.
A weapon now costs $263.
A meal now costs $51.

3.
3 vehicles, 5 houses, 100 weapons and 100 meals are bought by random players.
= (2.5 * 3) + (5 * 2.5) + (100 * 0.5) + (100 * 0.05)
= 7.5 + 12.5 + 50 + 5
= 75%

Spawned money -= 75% = 2,500 - (2,500 / 100 * 75)= $625

4.
2 players register and each one "spawns" $5,000.

Spawned money += 2 * $5,000 = $625 + $10,000 = $10,625

Code:

House prices   += $10,625/ 100 * 2.5   = +$266
Vehicle prices += $10,625 / 100 * 2.5  = +$266
Weapon prices  += $10,625 / 100 * 0.5  = +$53
Food           += $10,625 / 100 * 0.05 = +$5

A house now costs $15,266.
A vehicle now costs $5,266.
A weapon now costs $303.
A meal now costs $55.

This idea stops working when all houses, all vehicles and all of everything is already bought and only small products (meals, gasoline, raw materials etc.) which cannot be resold by players are left. So easiest way would be just drop the whole idea of having a 100% realistic economy and just to simulate it as good as possible.

[RebeloX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y_Less Existing systems inject and remove money because that is a better model of the real world. Let's say you have 1000 players on at any one time - that's still less than 0.001% of the San Andreas population, let alone the world! Taxes come from other people, there are tourists, out-of-towners, multi-nationals and all sorts of other things that result in money, as you say, being injected and disappearing. If you only have a fixed pool it will eventually be very hard for new players to do anything at all.

Yes, we can apply this economy, but we have to think that our players are only one X of the population of that city, to have a positive balance we have to think things through, not simply change the prices of wages in the script, for example: The faction government usually only contains its members, Securities, Mayor, Driver, etc ...
In order to apply this economy would have to have two parties, Republicans and Democrats and so could make voting laws, because if there are no parties they could abuse of power, but nevertheless it is necessary vigilance of administrators, but let's see another example, to apply certain laws would be necessary to make a voting system, imaginane that there is a command called /taxes,so the mayor could use this command when he wished, so my conclusion to apply a system of economy we have to think too much, I do not say make many calculations, because the economy works in statistics, but let's see, would have to first think about how we could apply the system, then we would have to think how would work the economy, anyway, I do not think that is something hard, but I know that has to think with time.

[Mento]

Giving a player a start amount, low of course, is necessary. It is necessary for keeping the player in the game and also allowing money to flow. A player with nothing can not do anything to contribute to the economy, when a player starts he will probably need a license, rent a vehicle, etc. Giving him no budget to start his life out, would only make the economy even worse. I think the best way for this to start, is supply and demand. Example, when the server first starts out, you make it in a island or somewhere remote, not a large city with lots of buildings. This gives players a opportunity to build, literally build, a business from wood, mapping maybe, but somehow incorporated roleplay or in game features into it. Now that the player has a business, he will go pick plants, take their seeds, and plant, and so on. This now creates a economy, as this player has a business that sells x bananas... He can set the price, and money will begin to flow. I think starting out in one of the three big cities will only restrict how players can spend their money. The economy will only work if players are spending their money, because they need to. So along with the economy and supply and demand, you'll need to set up hunger, sleep, sickness, and other realistic systems that will force a player to spend his given, let's say 50 rocks, or whatever the currency may be. But again, the problem with this whole idea is, many players in SAMP refuse to work, or find it very boring, so making a job interesting and fun for the player is also a big factor, most players will just join, realize they must work to actually buy a house, car, etc. and they will leave. This only makes it harder for the economy to grow, as no one will be spending their money, so no business will be gaining profit, and no profit means no currency circulation, and the only way I see the economy idea working is money circulation.

[Makaveli93]

I thought about this idea before, but I gave up later due to the fact that the server population is too low to fund the government through taxes, and the money transactions wouldn't be that often as in real life. Unless you can create a realistic artificial money income to the server that wouldn't cause inflation and general economy fuck up, it's impossible. To have a realistic economy, it would mean that you would have to have central bank that would loan the money to other banks, that would control the amount of money in circulation and that would have to change monetary politic from time to time, making it restrictive or expansive by increasing/decreasing the interest rates for banks, the amount of money and similar.

Of course, you can make an easier type of economy for the server, but still you need a way to control the amount of money on the server, and maintain stable prices on the server. Unless your tax is 50 percent and you have 200-300 players average online, even the government couldn't be funded by that amount of money. So, basically, you need to find a way to create an artificial money income technique.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn Well, I just explained how the money comes in the server RP-wise. lol The easiest way I could think of is the following: You could spread the spawned money into the base prices of everything and every time something is bought decrease the percentage from the total spawned money count. i.e. Код: House prices += 2.5% of spawned money Vehicle prices += 2.5% of spawned money Weapon prices += 0.5% of spawned money Food += 0.05% of spawned money 1. 2 players register and each one "spawns" $5,000. Spawned money = $5,000 * 2 = $10,000 Код: House prices += $10,000 / 100 * 2.5 = +$250 Vehicle prices += $10,000 / 100 * 2.5 = +$250 Weapon prices += $10,000 / 100 * 0.5 = +$50 Food += $10,000 / 100 * 0.05 = +$5 A house used to cost $15,000, now it costs $15,250. A vehicle used to cost $5,000, now it costs $5,250. A weapon used to cost $250, now it costs $300. A meal used to cost $50, now it costs $55. 2. 3 vehicles, 5 houses, 100 weapons and 100 meals are bought by random players. = (2.5 * 3) + (5 * 2.5) + (100 * 0.5) + (100 * 0.05) = 7.5 + 12.5 + 50 + 5 = 75% Spawned money -= 75% = 10,000 - (10,000 / 100 * 75)= $2,500 Код: House prices += $2,500 / 100 * 2.5 = +$63 Vehicle prices += $2,500 / 100 * 2.5 = +$63 Weapon prices += $2,500 / 100 * 0.5 = +$13 Food += $2,500 / 100 * 0.05 = +$1 A house now costs $15,063. A vehicle now costs $5,063. A weapon now costs $263. A meal now costs $51. 3. 3 vehicles, 5 houses, 100 weapons and 100 meals are bought by random players. = (2.5 * 3) + (5 * 2.5) + (100 * 0.5) + (100 * 0.05) = 7.5 + 12.5 + 50 + 5 = 75% Spawned money -= 75% = 2,500 - (2,500 / 100 * 75)= $625 4. 2 players register and each one "spawns" $5,000. Spawned money += 2 * $5,000 = $625 + $10,000 = $10,625 Код: House prices += $10,625/ 100 * 2.5 = +$266 Vehicle prices += $10,625 / 100 * 2.5 = +$266 Weapon prices += $10,625 / 100 * 0.5 = +$53 Food += $10,625 / 100 * 0.05 = +$5 A house now costs $15,266. A vehicle now costs $5,266. A weapon now costs $303. A meal now costs $55. This idea stops working when all houses, all vehicles and all of everything is already bought and only small products (meals, gasoline, raw materials etc.) which cannot be resold by players are left. So easiest way would be just drop the whole idea of having a 100% realistic economy and just to simulate it as good as possible.

I don't think this would work. I'm kinda tired right now so I don't know if I'm thinking right, but this would just mess up the economy even worse. The price increase would cause the inflation, at the end, making money worthless.

Quote:

In economics, inflation is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.[1] When the general price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services. Consequently, inflation also reflects an erosion in the purchasing power of money – a loss of real value in the internal medium of exchange and unit of account in the economy.

- Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

If you ever played on San Andreas Roleplay (back in '08 ), weapons, houses and other's prices slowly went up, and after 6 months a SPAS 12 that costed around 10k, then costed around 70k. This is a SAMP server example. The whole inflation resulted in everyone being millionaires and the amount of goods you could buy with a million was relatively small, excluding the script wise items like cars, 24/7 items and food.

[Sniper Kitty]

Why don't you set the spawn money to 0, make prices dynamic to players (allow them to set their own prices), and allow players to set how much their owned job pays (If the job runs out of bank then don't allow players to accept the job)?

[linuxthefish]

This has been a ongoing secret project of mine for a few months. Anyone wish to PM?

[NinjaChicken]

ok well ive been running a RP server for about 6 months now and well it sucks now, because all my player have about 200mill eACH! now im going to reset it and i need someone to help me make the prices

eg what do you think a good price is for all the cars? like e.g. Sultan: 400k or something please reply with as many car prices as possible and how much money do you think you should get when you spawn??

[GarenaPhilippines]

I can help you

And i can also join your server.

Give me the IP.

[GarenaPhilippines]

Server IP?

[NinjaChicken]

yea here it is samp.sentrogaming.net but im going to reset it an re do all the dealerships etc.

[GarenaPhilippines]

Im ingame...

Go ingame.

My ingame name is Kevin Brown

[GarenaPhilippines]

Shadow come ingame