[Romzes24]

Kalcor

I want to say from the whole Russian community. We all want 0.3.7 and 0.3DL to be merged into one common version. I know that many large servers do not want to switch to a new version if there is no download of models and patches that we still did not receive in version 0.3DL

[Cr0heart]

Releasing 0.3DL as non-official version shows that you are unsure, something may be wrong. Why it is not official? It's not official and that means something may change and why would someone waste his time in making not 100% sure thing. All the plugins must be updated, colandreas, weapon-config, sky plugin... and people can't update their server without the updated plugins. Updaters won't risk wasting their time. Once it's official it's not going backwards.

[BloodMaster]

Why do you expect developers to dedicate their time to a product you're so unsure about?
How can you know players experience if you're not an active player?
And since the version is final, make it a good one, make the owners happy.
Why do you even care at this point if the version is going to be final?
Merge 0.3.7 and 0.3.DL into SA:MP 0.4 or 1.0 and call it a day, and just keep the security updates going.

[Chilli9434]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor ls-rp started out strong on DL, but then the server had to change management and domain names. It's possible the problems they had weren't strictly related to DL.

LS-RP's problems have absolutely nothing to do with DL, I honestly can't see the connection.

Just to list a few of their problems in the past year (and a bit)

• - Mow goes missing and gets caught up in a controversy surrounding how he was running his businesses
• - They lose their .com domain replacing it with a less well known (and to some normie internet users) less trusted .io domain
• - Losing their domain probably caused massive problems with their SEO, resulting in dead links from any videos uploaded in the past causing confusion surrounding their branding
• - Core services broke when the domain went down and they took much much longer than they should have and some to this day are still not properly fixed I believe
• - That whole fiasco alienated some ls-rp users, it made them look incompetent
• - Their 10 year anniversary development (lets be honest) was a massive let down. The drug system they introduced still isn't even properly implemented today
• - Failure to listen to their community who were getting more and more fed up with being ignored and the status quo being allowed to continue
• - They had a period of weeks where their server was practically unplayable due to massive lag problems. It took ages for that to be fixed, and I believe it happened more than once.
• - They've devolved more and more into a cops/robbers server where unless you've played for years or you have friends on the inside then you're not going to get anywhere.

That's just a few of their problems in the past year. DL has probably helped them keep people interested (albeit probably in a small way), however, they haven't fully utilized it.

RC-RP is a great example of how they have embraced the DL features, and honestly it gives them a fresh edge over the competition. However, I feel like the branching out caused massive confusion in the community and caused a massive loss in foot flow of new players being able to find these communities.

[Chavan]

Kalcor

If that's how you said it might be the last version you'll make ...

Please fix some version bugs and vulnerabilities.

Let us customize our servers ... Huds, Objects, everything that makes each server unique and removes some default sa: mp keys.

Like "F6" E "T", leave only "T" so we can use "F6" for something.

[MaisterK]

The reason that the dl was not so popular was simply because it was not official, most people did not even know it existed, many players only enter sa-mp and press on the first download they see.
Even on my server, which was a small Spanish-speaking community, 99% loved the simple things I dl put on, like hats and wigs.

If it will really be the last version of samp that you will do kalcor, please listen to us and trust us, the forum has asked for it for a long time.
Let the latest version of samp be the most complete ever.

[Kalcor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodMaster Why do you expect developers to dedicate their time to a product you're so unsure about? How can you know players experience if you're not an active player? And since the version is final, make it a good one, make the owners happy. Why do you even care at this point if the version is going to be final? Merge 0.3.7 and 0.3.DL into SA:MP 0.4 or 1.0 and call it a day, and just keep the security updates going.

I honestly don't know. I'm just looking at the numbers.

If it were up to me (personal preference), I'd probably say go with DL. I spent several months on it.

[niCe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor niCe said most of his players want DL. But he also said most of his players are on 0.3.7. DL is there, there's nothing stopping anyone running it. Why are the players not voluntarily switching over?

I assume our players probably want to play on our servers, as they already have some progress here, that's why most of them won't switch to play on another 0.3.DL server, even though they seem to like the DL feature. They simply play on 0.3.7 because we are on 0.3.7. Our current players would definitely switch to 0.3.DL, if we upgraded servers to 0.3.DL. But my policy is to always stick with the official SA-MP version, thus 0.3.7, as I want players being able to discover our servers through internet/hosted list of 0.3.7 client, as I don't believe other source can compete with SA-MP client at this point, neither Youtube.

If 0.3.9 is released, I will upgrade my 0.3.7 servers to that version and 0.3.DL server will remain on 0.3.DL. If 0.3.9 is released with DL feature, I will upgrade all my servers to 0.3.9. and they could start benefit from DL features currently introduced on our 0.3.DL server.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor It's up in the air, but it seems like people are excited by the idea of DL, but once they get used to the new content, it doesn't really provide them a reason to stick around.

You are right. Everytime new SA-MP version was released, it caused increased player base, so might the DL. This effect is temporary. But DL is basically limitless, with DL, servers can give players much more of interesting content on and on and use that effect to keep SA-MP alive. And SA-MP won't even need any new version to hook players, albeit releasing new SA-MP version always will have a huge impact on increased player base.

Give a man a custom object and you feed him for a day; teach a man to create custom objects and you feed him for a lifetime.

[Romzes24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chavan Like "F6" E "T", leave only "T" so we can use "F6" for something.

Are you kidding? In the Russian layout, the T button does not open the chat, everyone uses F6!

[IllidanS4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor It's up in the air, but it seems like people are excited by the idea of DL, but once they get used to the new content, it doesn't really provide them a reason to stick around.

You said it in one of your first posts in this thread. Players go where other players go. If the server cannot provide singleplayer entertainment, it could be 0.3z or perhaps even another modification and the players will go elsewhere anyway, regardless of model downloading.

Without significant incentive to change version, no server owner would automatically do so. There are many factors at play:

1. It's new.
2. It has useful features.
3. It is heavily promoted.
4. It is expected to be used by others.
5. It is simple to switch to.
6. It has the majority of players.

If 0.3.8 was released, 1.-4. would be all generally true and thus 0.3.8 would be probably accepted and played by the majority of players. 5. may be difficult if some features are obsoleted, or if servers use plugins like YSF/SKY relying on memory addresses or structures, which of course need updating before being usable by the newest version. This is also amplified by the fact that there was no major server version for 2 years before 0.3.8, so these plugins could be developed relying more tightly on the specific server version. 6. is never true for a new version.

Generally, the pros outweight the cons for a new primary version, at least 4:2. Thus more and more servers adopt it, and after a while, 6. is also true. For any past version, upgrading to 0.3.7 would rule 5:1.

But now consider DL. DL started as a development version and still is a development version. Semi-official, alternate version. Two years ago, it was new, had useful features, but wasn't heavily promoted and relied on server owners to spread the word. It was the complete opposite: 2:4 - while it was new and useful, its future was unclear.

Even 0.3.7, while not new and without useful features when compared to DL, is still 4:2, while DL is now at 1:5, not being new anymore.

It's not that players don't want model downloading. It's just math. Had 0.3.8 been released, it would have been adopted as any new SA-MP version.

For comparison, 0.3.9 is currently for me at 3:3 (new, relatively promoted and probably expected to be used, but no significant features, not simple to switch to and of course no players).

[ShOoBy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor If the player count is going to decline anyway, it's best to leave the mod in a preserved state.

Ehhh, this 14 year mod has 30k players right now, compared to all games on Steam that places it on the 26th spot, I'm sure you get my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor The DL client was only recently removed from the download page. It was up for 6-8 months and servers showed no improvement.

Yes of course it didn't, it was seen and published as a beta, no-one moves big communities to beta branches that may be dropped (i say MAY but that's what actually happened). New servers also didn't have the best chances compared to a few years ago with the server list being dead and stuff like that.

You seem like a logical guy, judging solely by your ability of developing such a complex mod and this and that, sooo why can't you piece together simple things. Everything that stirred up an argument in the past few years is because people are still enthusiastic around something you've created.

I find it illogical that you say you're burnt out and you're "done", but you spend all this time removing features, fighting against theoretical not-even-released mods, and stuff like that.

And I'm really baffled because it's not a money thing that's for sure because you would have sold the mod a long time ago if that was the case.








Also,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor What are you talking about, you stupid cunt?

Nice.

[Cr0heart]

What do you say about these numbers Kalcor?

[Chavan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romzes24 Are you kidding? In the Russian layout, the T button does not open the chat, everyone uses F6!

That changes then, it makes no sense to have multiple keys for the same function.

[niCe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I honestly don't know. I'm just looking at the numbers. If it were up to me (personal preference), I'd probably say go with DL. I spent several months on it.

If I may share my experience, in the past I used to script a lot of features, which I started to dislike, because I simply felt they don't belong to the gamemode and they are too far from the "singleplayer features". I'm extreme perfectionist and when I don't feel something is perfect or right, I tend to scrap even hundreds hours of work and I removed a lot of interesting features from the gamemode.

Last two years, I was going through some of the backups I had from 2008-2012 and I tried to return some of the removed features (since they were already completed) and I can simply tell players enjoy these features and it brought a lot of fun to them.

[Tomboeg]

A final sa:mp version with the final changes you wish to make while including the DL and making it official seems like the right thing to do in my eyes. It would be the icing on the cake. Servers will be able to move on for one last time, plugins may need to be updated for one last time but it will end the scission and there will be one official final product.

Together with good advertising and other points of interest like IllidanS4 explained above, it can definitely work.

[Chavan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomboeg A final sa:mp version with the final changes you wish to make while including the DL and making it official seems like the right thing to do in my eyes. It would be the icing on the cake. Servers will be able to move on for one last time, plugins may need to be updated for one last time but it will end the scission and there will be one official final product. Together with good advertising and other points of interest like IllidanS4 explained above, it can definitely work.

Maybe it's not the last, just the restart.

[4D1L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I'm interested in finding the truth about this because this will probably be the final sa-mp version. The big English RP servers don't rely on sa-mp versions or sa-mp lists. They have a long registration processes and probably get most of their players from youtube/streamers. ls-rp started out strong on DL, but then the server had to change management and domain names. It's possible the problems they had weren't strictly related to DL. rc-rp banned one of the main youtubers promoting their server, right before 0.3.8 development started. Then TommyB managed to get himself kicked out of the beta team and off the 0.3DL list. niCe said most of his players want DL. But he also said most of his players are on 0.3.7. DL is there, there's nothing stopping anyone running it. Why are the players not voluntarily switching over? It's up in the air, but it seems like people are excited by the idea of DL, but once they get used to the new content, it doesn't really provide them a reason to stick around.

I think servers like BARP and BWRP have been a massive let down for the English community and have caused a decline in numbers. Both servers are on 0.3.DL. BARP was meant to revolutionalise the whole experience but turned out to be filled with issues.

The problem with Bullworth Roleplay (BWRP) is that they expect users to download a cache in excess of 100MB without downloads being redirected. Their adverts created hype but on launch day, 100KB/s downloads and bugs everywhere.

There are plenty of other English roleplay servers who do not redirect their downloads creating long waits before registration which I think is part of the problem.

It's a shame a lot of server owners neglect the wiki, but, I beleive pushing the custom model feature into the main branch would mean more exposure for servers like mine which would not have been possible without 0.3.DL.

[TommyB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor The big English RP servers don't rely on sa-mp versions or sa-mp lists. They have a long registration processes and probably get most of their players from youtube/streamers.

A few years ago, we ran a poll on RCRP asking how people found the server. You can view the results here - https://forum.redcountyrp.com/thread...-rc-rp.153039/

Looking at these results, we can assume around 25% of the server's population (myself included) discovered it by browsing the server lists. Obviously, that's only one server. You mentioned how LSRP was off the server lists for ages, but LSRP was a behemoth during its peak. RCRP has never been anywhere near the popularity that LSRP had during its golden years. Our highest recorded player count is 190, whereas theirs is 600. With such a stark difference in popularity, it was likely very easy for LSRP to keep getting new people due to the sheer amount of YouTube content & word of mouth generated by simply being that large. We weren't quite as lucky, unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor rc-rp banned one of the main youtubers promoting their server, right before 0.3.8 development started. Then TommyB managed to get himself kicked out of the beta team and off the 0.3DL list.

Pretty sure he got unbanned about a month after we launched on 0.3.DL. The server peaked well in the following months, which can be seen in the chart I posted a few pages back.

[Kalcor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cr0heart What do you say about these numbers Kalcor?

Probably fake. I'd say sa-mp peaks around 20,000-30,000. The highest server peak was around 6000 and total players around 60,000. So, it's about 30% of where it was during the peak.

It doesn't matter anyway. The best times for me in sa-mp were probably during 0.2 when the player peak was only 4000-8000.

[niCe]

I also had best times in 2008, when I first discovered SA-MP and started creating my server. But thousands of players are still enjoying SA-MP until now and they're having great time.

Even with the 20-30k, SA-MP would be in Top 20, beating all the multi-million companies with their new games.