[TommyB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by niCe I think LS-RP and RC-RP lost most of the players, because the 0.3.DL is not known, not because they have downloadable objects.

New players already wait numerous hours to play LSRP and RCRP due to the application-based registration systems we have. I doubt they care that they have to spend a minute downloading assets. The custom assets we have on RCRP have never been poorly received, so clearly the issue here isn't custom content. I've already provided statistics that show our amount of new registrations went down by a noticeable amount as soon as we moved to 0.3.DL in February 2018. We actually did gain players for a while after moving, and even peaked well during summer of 2018. However, the reduction in new players eventually balanced stuff out and has slowly caused average player peaks to trickle down.

[Romzes24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor Sorry guys. My intuition is telling me to reverse course on the whole model downloading thing. If it actually improved the player count on servers, I would have given it more of a chance. If the player count is going to decline anyway, it's best to leave the mod in a preserved state.

Kalcor, you want to leave the current atmosphere of SA-MP so that it is close to the native GTA SA? Make it possible to upload your own skins, objects and sprites, just limit the total size of all files to the server so that owners can not load more than 30MB. From this, everyone will only benefit. Players will not have to wait long for uploads to the server, and owners will be able to upload only the basic things that they need. Server owners will learn how to make high-quality and optimized models that will take up little space and will not outwardly differ in the original GTA_SA.

I think this is a very cool solution, please make SA-MP better.

[Cr0heart]

It's a step forward to improve the mod. It will become a game engine and that's what most people will be attracted to. Mafia style game, medieval style game, jungle with lions and tigers, it will become an unlimited development thing. You see, I don't know what are the legal issues with this thing, you are acting weird about this. But take your time and think about what will official custom options do to SAMP. It has negative sides as you said yourself because GTA is not GTA then but according to that all servers should be left in 2009.

[niCe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB New players already wait numerous hours to play LSRP and RCRP due to the application-based registration systems we have. I doubt they care that they have to spend a minute downloading assets. The custom assets we have on RCRP have never been poorly received, so clearly the issue here isn't custom content. I've already provided statistics that show our amount of new registrations went down by a noticeable amount as soon as we moved to 0.3.DL in February 2018. We actually did gain players for a while after moving, and even peaked well during summer of 2018. However, the reduction in new players eventually balanced stuff out and has slowly caused average player peaks to trickle down.

Sorry, I read again what I wrote, and I didn't realize, it could be understood contrary. What I meant is, I think LS-RP and RC-RP lost players because 0.3.DL is not known, and that they haven't lost players because they have downloadable objects. I agree with you on that.

[TommyB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by niCe Sorry, I read again what I wrote, and I didn't realize, it could be understood contrary. What I meant is, I think LS-RP and RC-RP lost players because 0.3.DL is not know, and that they didn't lost players because they have downloadable objects. I agree with you on that.

I know what you meant. I was adding onto your stance by saying players already wait a long time to get into these servers. The download they're greeted with likely don't bother them. In RCRP's case, we use a CDN to deliver our content so downloads typically take less than a minute if you have a good connection.

[fr0stG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by niCe But it's better than nothing, isn't it? I feel this is reasonable compromise.

Maybe the better approach would be to educate people on how to properly compress things and use a CDN for model delivery. CloudFlare can be used, and it's completely free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3JulhlNmSk

533 models in 30 seconds using HTTP/1.1. It could be even faster if it supported sending a ZIP with all of them rather than downloading them one by one. But obviously that could have some security considerations. The arguably better thing to do would be to add HTTP2 support for parallel requests.

The argument that custom downloads worsens the user experience is ridiculous. Sure, it adds a little more wait, but the benefit from having custom models more than makes up for that. In turn, the custom models improve UI/UX as well.

So just some ideas:
- Keep custom models, but enforce HTTP downloads at the minimum
- Add HTTP/2 or QUIC support
- Create a post/wiki article about how to use CDN's, GZIP compression, so on.
- Support sending models via a compressed/archive file to the client (potential security considerations, though)
- Create/implement a server-side minifier for models so that even when people add uncompressed behemoths, the server will still be able to serve them efficiently. Or alternatively, create a script/batch file to mass-minify models so that they can be uploaded/exported.

[niCe]

Guys, I was trying to come up with some compromise, as Kalcor doesn't want the DL feature in 0.3.9. We don't know what impact would the DL have on players, we can only assume. But adding at least some limited DL feature, restricted to 100 objects and 100 skins, could generally test how players accept the DL feature when released in official SA-MP version. I feel this approach is pretty prudent. If the impact was good, the limits could be possibly increased in some other version.

The limit of 100 objects and 100 skins would also make server owners to use the downloadable content wisely and it wouldn't enable anyone to change SA-MP to completely different game, with this amount, it would simply serve for couple of enhancements, the players could benefit from.

[Janichar35]

Kalcor,Just make everyone happy and keep both versions all in one please, if there are players who don't want to join servers which have downloadable content just let them know there is a small information written in red,corner of server informations or something so these people won't join it if they still want to play with same lame skins which are left back from 2004 but don't touch what we have man.

The reason of why there aren't many players on 0.3DL is clear, thats because 0.3.DL version of SA-MP was never published officially from sa-mp forums or anywhere. I am sure there are still people who don't even know about this version and they would download the content if they knew, its really bad to see you taking decision to remove 0.3.DL.. I was working on a project eagerly which include custom modelings. Again you believing in newbies mind Kalcor, 0.3.9 will fail. There are people who will leave SA-MP officially if 0.3DL is removed.

[WestCoast1337]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janichar35 Kalcor,Just make everyone happy and keep both versions all in one please, if there are players who don't want to join servers which have downloadable content just let them know there is a small information written in red,corner of server informations or something so these people won't join it if they still want to play with same lame skins which are left back from 2004 but don't touch what we have man. The reason of why there aren't many players on 0.3DL is clear, thats because 0.3.DL version of SA-MP was never published officially from sa-mp forums or anywhere. I am sure there are still people who don't even know about this version and they would download the content if they knew, its really bad to see you taking decision to remove 0.3.DL.. I was working on a project eagerly which include custom modelings. Again you believing in newbies mind Kalcor, 0.3.9 will fail. There are people who will leave SA-MP officially if 0.3DL is removed.

It was previously mentioned that kalcor will not remove 03DL, but simply will not use it in 0.3.9. I have to agree only on the condition that it will simultaneously update the DL version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by niCe Guys, I was trying to come up with some compromise, as Kalcor doesn't want the DL feature in 0.3.9. We don't know what impact would the DL have on players, we can only assume. But adding at least some limited DL feature, restricted to 100 objects and 100 skins, could generally test how players accept the DL feature when released in official SA-MP version. I feel this approach is pretty prudent. If the impact was good, the limits could be possibly increased in some other version. The limit of 100 objects and 100 skins would also make server owners to use the downloadable content wisely and it wouldn't enable anyone to change SA-MP to completely different game, with this amount, it would simply serve for couple of enhancements, the players could benefit from.

It is a pity that you ignored my post. I use the server on the Vice City map and the limit of 100 objects will not do me any good.

[CONTROLA]

I am speaking on behalf of the Romanian servers community which totals more than 3000 players daily and everybody loves the idea of having custom models added to servers. Players absolutely love the idea. But they avoid(ed) moving to 0.3DL simply because of uncertainty - 0.3DL is not the latest, official version of SA:MP. It's simply in our nature to only choose something which is 100% official and stable, even if it doesn't show immense benefits like 0.3DL did. It's our mentality.

Hell, SA:MP is more popular than some MMORPGs out there and more and more players are joining Romanian servers everyday. However, old players leave because they simply get bored because of the lack of updates from servers. And servers have used every single functionality of SA:MP up to the point where no update can be innovative anymore. Custom models is something which would incredibly boost the popularity of SA:MP, at least here in Romania. We are open to any kind of collaboration and communication, but have never been able to come in contact with you.

[m1n1vv]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janichar35 Kalcor,Just make everyone happy and keep both versions all in one please, if there are players who don't want to join servers which have downloadable content just let them know there is a small information written in red,corner of server informations or something so these people won't join it if they still want to play with same lame skins which are left back from 2004 but don't touch what we have man. The reason of why there aren't many players on 0.3DL is clear, thats because 0.3.DL version of SA-MP was never published officially from sa-mp forums or anywhere. I am sure there are still people who don't even know about this version and they would download the content if they knew, its really bad to see you taking decision to remove 0.3.DL.. I was working on a project eagerly which include custom modelings. Again you believing in newbies mind Kalcor, 0.3.9 will fail. There are people who will leave SA-MP officially if 0.3DL is removed.

When connected, a warning dialog opens. Buttons: download and exit. Store load information in USERDATA.DAT.

[Tomboeg]

I believe that if it were official, people would consider it much more.
Now it's rather hidden away, demotivating people to start big or small projects on it.
Especially since it's no longer been displayed on the downloads page.

The ideal picture would be a merge, but I'm sure that it has already been given some thought before.

I still believe that if DL were to become official it would, in turn, be considered more.
Perhaps people would be more willing to use DL. It does indeed open the road to infinite destinations.

Who would say no to custom content? Any server could make it as crazy or 'atmosphere' friendly as they wish it to be.

And since Kye mentioned he left the building, perhaps opening the door further for the communities who wish to contribute to the sa:mp platform on their own wouldn't be such a bad idea.

[Kalcor]

I'm interested in finding the truth about this because this will probably be the final sa-mp version.

The big English RP servers don't rely on sa-mp versions or sa-mp lists. They have a long registration processes and probably get most of their players from youtube/streamers.

ls-rp started out strong on DL, but then the server had to change management and domain names. It's possible the problems they had weren't strictly related to DL.

rc-rp banned one of the main youtubers promoting their server, right before 0.3.8 development started. Then TommyB managed to get himself kicked out of the beta team and off the 0.3DL list.

niCe said most of his players want DL. But he also said most of his players are on 0.3.7. DL is there, there's nothing stopping anyone running it. Why are the players not voluntarily switching over?

It's up in the air, but it seems like people are excited by the idea of DL, but once they get used to the new content, it doesn't really provide them a reason to stick around.

[Cr0heart]

I'm speaking for whole Balkan's here, everybody wants 0.3DL. Los Balkan, one of the oldest and the biggest Croatian servers is in need of this because it became motonous after 10 years of playing the same thing. Deity owner of Skill Arena, top 5 sometimes #1 server in the world, he said so many times he wants 0.3DL, Croatian youtuber BloodMaster (nearly 900k subs) also said SAMP needs DL. This modification will go back in it's early days because the new thing is coming, something so big I would say the biggest change in SAMP ever created. I respect your thinking but that's a thinking of a 30yr old guy. SAMP will offer something that no other game offers. Download speed is not the problem, objects are working everything is working well. If you release an official version and all the plugins update, with all the custom making stuff tutorials this mod will be a sensation once again.

[m1n1vv]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I'm interested in finding the truth about this because this will probably be the final sa-mp version. The big English RP servers don't rely on sa-mp versions or sa-mp lists. They have a long registration processes and probably get most of their players from youtube/streamers. ls-rp started out strong on DL, but then the server had to change management and domain names. It's possible the problems they had weren't strictly related to DL. rc-rp banned one of the main youtubers promoting their server, right before 0.3.8 development started. Then TommyB managed to get himself kicked out of the beta team and off the 0.3DL list. niCe said most of his players want DL. But he also said most of his players are on 0.3.7. DL is there, there's nothing stopping anyone running it. Why are the players not voluntarily switching over? It's up in the air, but it seems like people are excited by the idea of DL, but once they get used to the new content, it doesn't really provide them a reason to stick around.

Again. All the big servers use RackNet. The DL has other addresses.

[niCe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestCoast1337 It is a pity that you ignored my post. I use the server on the Vice City map and the limit of 100 objects will not do me any good.

I didn't ignore it, I just think that you are indeed changing the game into something else. And if Kalcor isn't sure the DL is the right way, that it might be more prudent to take a small step to see how the DL works in an official release, it's a small step, but it might show if the direction is right or wrong.

From my point of view, large english servers would use the DL wisely, enhancing their gameplay and not changing the SA-MP into completely other game - UIF, WTLS, Horizon RP, IM-RP and other servers. And those large english servers, that are on 0.3.DL already, they could only gain players if they switched to official 0.3.9 with DL.

[Chavan]

Kalcor

I think most developers just want some customization of their servers.

- Custom Sprite
- Skins
- Cars
- Huds
- And more security

Another idea is to remove the class selection, most need to force a timer not to appear, but end up appearing whenever you die and whenever you log in.

Also the possibility to remove HUD from GTA.

[Janichar35]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I'm interested in finding the truth about this because this will probably be the final sa-mp version. The big English RP servers don't rely on sa-mp versions or sa-mp lists. They have a long registration processes and probably get most of their players from youtube/streamers. ls-rp started out strong on DL, but then the server had to change management and domain names. It's possible the problems they had weren't strictly related to DL. rc-rp banned one of the main youtubers promoting their server, right before 0.3.8 development started. Then TommyB managed to get himself kicked out of the beta team and off the 0.3DL list. niCe said most of his players want DL. But he also said most of his players are on 0.3.7. DL is there, there's nothing stopping anyone running it. Why are the players not voluntarily switching over? It's up in the air, but it seems like people are excited by the idea of DL, but once they get used to the new content, it doesn't really provide them a reason to stick around.

If 0.3DL version won't be removed then its fine.. I'd like to see more developments tho such as custom weapons, cars and such but yeah Kalcor you are right aswell. This guy is exhausted to develop SA-MP for years and years so I respect that. However just leave 0.3DL be, there will be still players who will want to play on it. As someone who play SA-MP for years ( it been like 12 years already ) I witnessed a lot and I know how most of people became happy when they see 0.3.8 version coming up because it has custom objects&custom skins.

I also think 0.3.9 version will be last version of SA-MP, since it will be like that I'd support you to release something which will take place in peoples head instead. Like 0.3.DL version did, something which people won't get bored that much easily playing it. I still think having 0.3.DL servers and non-0.3.DL servers under same SA-MP version ( under 0.3.9 ) but thats your choice.

[Tomboeg]

Knowing the majority of the players, they stick with the game servers they're known to. If they don't change, the players won't either.

I know a few modelers who are afraid to model content for 0.3DL because they consider it to be unofficial and are afraid that their hard work and efforts will be in vain. That future versions of SA:MP might someday arrive which exclude the DL. It's basically an investment they're not daring to make.

I myself have three different installations for sa:mp, one for 0.3.7, DL and 0.3x.

[CONTROLA]

99% of Romanian players use modded content which only works on 0.3.7 because of sampfuncs. They don't like the idea of moving to 0.3DL because it's unofficial, meaning that they would need to switch to 0.3DL, wait for the mods to be available for use in 0.3DL, and then repeat the process when 0.3DL becomes official. Even though server owners would like to switch to the new version, they can't because their player count would literally halve.