[Renisal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K4r Dude if you remove half of those (Y) features will literally break sa-mp. Some command processors? Almost all use that. E.G SetTimerEx ? Every single script? CallLocalFunction? SendPlayerMessage? ForceClassSelection? Race checkpoints? Virtual Worlds? Per player objects Streamer? If Incognito and Zeex can stay by SA-MP's side for so long Kalcor, you can too. https://github.com/samp-incognito/sa...commits/master https://github.com/Zeex/samp-plugin-...commits/master https://github.com/Zeex/samp-plugin-jit/commits/master https://github.com/Zeex/subhook/commits/master https://github.com/Zeex/qawno https://github.com/Zeex/samp-plugin-profiler https://github.com/Zeex/amx_assembly I think you should consider NiCe as a beta or atleast listen to him if you won't listen to us. He has the best and most promising SA-MP server. His server is literally filled with CreateMenus because his server is single player based and he isn't complaining to you because he works constantly everyday and he can probably change all his menus in a week due to his motivation but you need to look at this guy's dedication, https://www.gta-multiplayer.cz/sk/topic/5855/?page=122 Doing all this might cause more harm than anything...

That doesn't means Y*Less can do anything he wants.

edit: @Kalcor, you should unban India and other countries from using the forums, it's been 1 year that India (and maybe other countries) got banned from using the forums. Not a big deal but a simple advise.

[fr0stG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I'm not throwing anything anyway. All I have to do to enable the downloading feature is flip a switch in the compiler. I'm just not seeing the upside for sa-mp, releasing DL as the main version.

I'm confused, what's the logic in releasing a new version without DL/custom model capabilities? Servers that do not use them will continue to work as expected, however servers that do use them will not be alienated from the rest of pack.

Whether you want to admit it or not, you put the early adopters for 0.3DL in a bad position. I'm not sure people would've widely adopted it if they knew that support would be haphazardly dropped and split from what's widely available. Sure, you can shift blame and say "that's a risk they took", but I don't think anyone thought this feature was going to be dropped/optional. Everyone (including myself) saw huge potential for it.

I spent countless hours optimizing models and CDN delivery for 0.3DL to provide a good experience. Seeing that go to waste in the big picture of things is just sad.

I think it's pointless to speculate on the reasons 0.3DL wasn't successful, but please tell me the reasoning of why you can't just keep it in and merge it into the next release. In my opinion, keeping the feature available in 0.3.9 would be the best of both worlds. If your suspicions about 0.3DL are true, then adoption for it in 0.3.9 will stagnate. If they're wrong, then everyone is happy and there's far greater potential for servers to improve.

So... what do you have to lose by merging it into 0.3.9?

[irani]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I think the reason something like this comes up is because Y Less and co are going to try and justify stealing everything from sa-mp based on a few contributions 11 years ago, which is why his contributions need to be removed.

No? it's because you already mentioned removal of these parts, no one ever talked about this before

No matter what, they are his lines of code, date doesn't matter, age doesn't matter, so why you keep using this phrase contributions from 11 years ago?

I'm not taking anyone's side, what I prefer at this moment with everything you said is rewriting those parts, even if it means one line of code, even if he contributed to a system that changed a lot but you can still see his parts.

Hope everything gets better.

[dkluin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I'm removing CreateMenu and associated functions from 0.3.9 and future versions because it was added by Y Less and I'd like to eventually remove everything contributed by him. I haven't come across a server in the last 10 years that uses GTA:SA menus.

Will there be at least be a more 'modern' alternative available such as ImGui? I'm even willing to help with that should you need it.

[niCe]

I've tried to gather some feedback on DL also from players on our servers, as from what I have seen the most server owners would appreciate the DL feature. But I thought maybe feedback from the players could be more valuable. Players on our servers could have already seen the benefits of DL on our DL server in action.

The poll question was:

Quote:

Would you like to see custom downloadable object models and skins in the next SA-MP release? The downloadable object models and skins are currently featured in beta version SA-MP 0.3.DL. When players connect to the server, the client will automatically download object models and skins for them, which might take few minutes (only for the first time, next time objects won't download again). The custom object models and skins enable server owners to add more features to their servers.

Yes - 193 votes (86.5%)
I don't know - 14 votes (6.3%)
Rather yes - 8 votes (3.6%)
No - 6 votes (2.7%)
Rather no - 2 votes (0.9%)

[Kalcor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by irani so why you keep using this phrase contributions from 11 years ago?

Because things change over time. Y Less may have done something with the virtual world system in 0.2, but by 2008 sa-mp has server-side streaming and it's not the same system.

so who gets credit for doing vworlds in sa-mp? for 0.2, Y less. for 0.3+, I would say me.

edit:

None of this can properly be discussed without going back to what Y Less posted before he was banned. But basically he denied I had any rights to anything related to sa-mp and was merely a founder, thus they can create "open sa-mp" without my permission.

[OstGot]

I really wonder who will play on 0.3.9 in this case
No one server developer will regard the arguments above and simply stay 0.3.7 or DL because of hopelessness when he sees that when switching to a new version he doesn't gain new functionality but only loses it. In the meantime, the SA-MP will again be split into another version and the developer will again complain that he receives little feedback due to its "loss of popularity".

[LocMax]

Considering this is most likely a last bigger update for SA-MP, could it just be an update that would unite the community into a single preferred version with the features people here by a large margin wish to have and with the necessary fixes / improvements, without the cons outweighing the pros (which would be removal of massively used functions such as SetTimerEx, CRF, ...)

Perhaps just a poll about what would people prefer the next version to deliver, if a merge with DL, or not, and so on

[K4r]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor Because things change over time. Y Less may have done something with the virtual world system in 0.2, but by 2008 sa-mp has server-side streaming and it's not the same system. so who gets credit for doing vworlds in sa-mp? for 0.2, Y less. for 0.3+, I would say me. edit: None of this can properly be discussed without going back to what Y Less posted before he was banned. But basically he denied I had any rights to anything related to sa-mp and was merely a founder, thus they can create "open sa-mp" without my permission.

Replying to your edit

So wouldnt that require you removing code from jax, spookie, etc and the original developers also so that you have sole proprietorship over the entire samp codebase and its services? Well you can just redo the code but you get me

[Kalen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OstGot I really wonder who will play on 0.3.9 in this case No one server developer will regard the arguments above and simply stay 0.3.7 or DL because of hopelessness when he sees that when switching to a new version he doesn't gain new functionality but only loses it. In the meantime, the SA-MP will again be split into another version and the developer will again complain that he receives little feedback due to its "loss of popularity".

Sometimes a serious update means losing functionality. Like some library for a programming language - when developers update something and it requires users to rewrite their projects a bit. I don't know what's going on here, I don't even have my own sa-mp server, but that's probably what you all should expect when a serious sa-mp update is about to release.

[Romzes24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalen Sometimes a serious update means losing functionality. Like some library for a programming language - when developers update something and it requires users to rewrite their projects.

I do not mind, but in fact there are no analogues for CreateMenu, so removing this system does not make any sense!

[Kalen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romzes24 I do not mind, but in fact there are no analogues for CreateMenu, so removing this system does not make any sense!

But you all are ready to burn kalcor just because he doesn't release a sa-mp update which would make all of you happy. But take a think, an update that will make all of you happy will most likely require major servers to rewrite their gamemodes. But there's no such update possible, I think.

[FufLa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor There's hardly any content available for DL. It was too late in the mod's lifecycle to try and develop a modeling pipeline. You're better off abandoning DL and going back to 0.3.7. We'll have to figure something else out to get new content in, like going back to including it with the sa-mp installer.

Glad you finally realized that. I was always a firm defender of your "this is a MP mod for GTA SA, we wont add modding or custom UI in cause you'll use it to change the game" stance. Was incredibly disappointed to see .8/DL happen and wondered what caused the sudden change of mind.

[Kalcor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K4r Replying to your edit So wouldnt that require you removing code from jax, spookie, etc and the original developers also so that you have sole proprietorship over the entire samp codebase and its services? Well you can just redo the code but you get me

I am the original developer. Anyone who has used sa-mp has used it under agreement with me.

jax and spookie have never made any claims like Y Less. they know this is my project, where Y Less seems seriously confused.

[OstGot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalen Sometimes a serious update means losing functionality. Like some library for a programming language - when developers update something and it requires users to rewrite their projects a bit. I don't know what's going on here, I don't even have my own sa-mp server, but that's probably what you all should expect when a serious sa-mp update is about to release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalen But you all are ready to burn kalcor just because he doesn't release a sa-mp update which would make all of you happy. But take a think, an update that will make all of you happy will most likely require major servers to rewrite their gamemodes. But there's no such update possible, I think.

This is not the case

[dkluin]

So Kalcor will there be a replacement for those features you want to remove?

[K4r]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I am the original developer. Anyone who has used sa-mp has used it under agreement with me. jax and spookie have never made any claims like Y Less. they know this is my project, where Y Less seems seriously confused.

Alright, got you.

I'm just gonna leave with the reminder yes you usually make good decisions but just be mindful of this one. I know you're probably too demotivated to remake the removed code but just be careful. Removing more will definitely split it into 3 communities and samp can definitely NOT handle that. Adoption of 0.3.DL also was hurt when you took long to put it on the sa-mp website at the downloads folder. It wasnt entirely us, even if you dont agree something as belittle as that did cause a lack of adoption by players (not developers).

[IllidanS4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor I think the reason something like this comes up is because Y Less and co are going to try and justify stealing everything from sa-mp based on a few contributions 11 years ago, which is why his contributions need to be removed.

I request an explanation of this statement. What exactly did Y steal?

[Kalcor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllidanS4 I request an explanation of this statement. What exactly did Y steal?

They've been threatening to release "open mp" mod which is apparently compatible with sa-mp, but gets rid of me. That's what Y Less posted. It's impossible to release anything compatible with sa-mp without violating my rights. I'm guessing it was going to be something similar to that rwmp.

Anything that happens with sa-mp requires my permission.

If you want full control over your own MP mod, you'd need to start from scratch, or fork an open source one and abide by the GPL or w/e.

[BloodMaster]

Why do you not just talk to Y Less and try to solve your differences? Get into a Discord/Teamspeak call and just talk.
What would be the harm?
Best case scenario, you guys make it up and find a solution.
Worst case? Nothing changes.
You cannot lose.