[Menace.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor We've decided to not include the 0.3DL downloading feature in 0.3.9. If you have a server on 0.3DL and you want to come back to the main branch, you could contact me about possible inclusion of skins in to the 0.3.9 installer.

With all due respect, I think you should reconsider. The downloading feature was probably the one thing injecting life into SA-MP at the moment lmao

[Dynamic]

Been here since the start and I still play. Think it's a bad decision. Sure, I get the choice but why not leave the choice up to the server owners? People who don't want the custom stuff can just disable it in the .cfg can't they? Yeah.

Come on Kalcor

[Felipe_Freeze]

Please, don't kill a feature we like so much

[KeanuPetrosyan]

Time to open source SAMP

[LocMax]

I would like to ask to stop with the disrespectful attitude towards the community with the lack of understanding and the lack of will to cooperate with the community and the server owners, the lack of communication and insights into decision making, and to start correcting the path before it really becomes "not worth it" to people to play or develop servers on SA:MP.

[TheArcher]

I'm pretty sure Kalcor is reading and not replying, probably he realized the mistake he could do if he updates to 0.3.9 without keeping the DL

[ShOoBy]

That's so absurd, I'm really wondering who are those 'server owners' of yours that prefer to remove features and are more important than the very vocal rest of the community.

I mean I didn't use every single feature that SA-MP offers but that doesn't mean I voted to remove them, how stupid would that be eh?

[TommyB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShOoBy That's so absurd, I'm really wondering who are those 'server owners' of yours that prefer to remove features and are more important than the very vocal rest of the community. I mean I didn't use every single feature that SA-MP offers but that doesn't mean I voted to remove them, how stupid would that be eh?

makes me wonder if any 0.3.DL owners were spoken to at all. i know i wasn't

[Stefhan]

I noticed that Kalcor said that old servers often don't have the resources to hire modders and enhance the gameplay experience, therefore he wishes to discontinue 0.3DL entirely.

I hope you read this Kalcor, because you should NOT discontinue 0.3DL. And SA-MP is not dying either.

I have been playing SA-MP since 2009 but I was only 8 years old at the time. I've played throughout the years and I believe SA-MP is still far from dead. GTA: San Andreas is one of the best games of all time and continues to be a famous game. It is meme-d everywhere on the internet. (Reddit especially) New YouTube videos and Twitch streams still attract a lot of traffic. I still love this game and this mod and intend to be here for many more years.

Some of the issues that cause SA-MP to be declining:

1. Game versions.
Rockstar Games keeps releasing piteous "remastered" versions of the game which all just make the game worse and make 1.0 less accessible, whilst 1.0 is required to play SA-MP. (1.0 is also generally speaking the best version of the game.)

2. SAMP 0.3.7 and 0.3.DL.
Multiple SA-MP versions should be avoided completely since Rockstar Games already makes it hard enough on us by releasing so many different game versions. The community is divided because there are two different clients. 0.3.DL is not in a fair position because 0.3.7 is considered to be the "official latest release". This makes 0.3.DL look obsolete, but it is not.

3. GTA V & MTA.
GTA V and MTA obviously cut into SA-MP's community because both are similar and GTA 5 is the new generation.

4. Lack of guidance.
The entire SA-MP community is happy to call the platform dying and nobody is publicly protecting SA-MP or guiding anyone in whatever process they want to do that involves SA-MP.

Potential solutions to above described issues:

1. Game versions.
There needs to be a clear, quick and easy to follow guide that gets 1.0 up and running after you buy and install either the Steam or Rockstar Launcher version of the game. This guide should be on sa-mp.com and other popular GTA SA sites and be very obvious to spot and to the point. Why downgrade to 1.0? How to downgrade to 1.0? Those should be the central points and purposes of those pages. There is one on YouTube that is really good, but you have to be aware of its existence. That's not how it should be.

2. SAMP 0.3.7 and 0.3.DL.
Merge 0.3DL and 0.3.7 when releasing 0.3.9. Doing so will forge the community back together. Old servers don't have the resources? They do. Last year, when SA-MP was already "dying" according to the community, I decided to create my own server after SARP's demise. To this day I still haven't launched, but that is solely because I procrastinate and work on it only for a few days and then take breaks for a month.

I have learnt PAWN, MySQL, HTML, CSS, PHP and 3D modelling in Blender with no background in coding or modelling whatsoever. All I did was create maps for SARP throughout 2015-2018. I am currently 19 years old. Any server has the resources. Blender 2.8 has an amazing .dff tool that can be combined with KDFF GUI to work very, very well. All of this is free. If you are willing to learn, you can do it. However, it could be a lot easier. Nobody told me KDFF GUI existed. Nobody told me you could use Blender with a .dff addon. No one. You need guides for stuff like this. Up to date guides.

SA-MP has to release 0.3.9 and keep the custom skins and objects. If possible, expand into custom vehicles and weapons as well. If you don't merge, that would be a huge, huge shame since I and many others invested a lot of time into modelling. Just because some servers that are dear to your heart "don't have the resources to compete" doesn't mean we all should suffer from the fact that they aren't willing to invest time into learning. This is one of SA-MP's greatest features and if you look at the images below you can see I've made some open interiors with the custom object functionality.

https://imgur.com/a/fg4YfJn

3. GTA V & MTA.
There is nothing we can do about this, except for reaching out to MTA and advertising each other's platforms. If you have GTA SA, there is no reason not to play both. Just like how Minecraft and Terraria advertised for each other. GTA 5 is new but still too new. You need a good PC, you can't have a lot of server slots without requiring high performance, and the scripts aren't super advanced. It is also not convenient to launch, but it is more convenient to install compared to SA-MP. Since for SA-MP, you have to downgrade your GTA installation.

4. Lack of guidance.
SA-MP shouldn't be open source. The community however, should be very open to new players and developers. Support people that want to make a server. Don't tell them it is a waste of time, create effective, up to date and easy to understand guides. I usually have to spend hours on one single issue just because everything is either outdated or you're left to figure it out yourself. This goes for scripting, mapping, modelling and even downgrading to 1.0 in order to play SA-MP. Share resources. Got cool custom skins or objects? Don't limit them to your server. People download them when they join anyway. If they try hard enough, they'll get them.


I believe I nailed a few of SA-MP's core issues at the moment. I don't believe these take that much time at all to work on either, especially considering we have so many people still that are willing to help. Go address these issues. I'll help where I can, like so many others. Just ask us.

[HTTDIENTE]

[Developer of a Russian-language project]

Kalkor, look, here's an example for you. Our team developed a graffiti system, and we wanted to move away from the standard objects and decided to do something cool and our own. We used the SetObjectMaterialText function, doing this for each gang, the person who created the graffiti data on the game map was ready to die, but with DL it could be done in an instant. Please reverse your last decision.

[Sajugs]

>an entire 90 page thread of people saying they want DL

Kalcor: ''yeah nah nobody wants DL features''

[BloodMaster]

I hope he just takes us by surprise in the 0.3.9 RC Thread and says "Includes 0.3.DL content"

[Cr0heart]

Kalcor please include DL features in 0.3.9 for everybody. Don't you think it's unfair for you to listen only 5-6 guys instead of 30,000 people? Think about your decision, how many people will leave SA:MP? But it seems like you don't care about the little guys. Very greedy and selfish.

[n0minal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor We've decided to not include the 0.3DL downloading feature in 0.3.9. If you have a server on 0.3DL and you want to come back to the main branch, you could contact me about possible inclusion of skins in to the 0.3.9 installer.

By "we" you mean you? Everyone wants and needs that, I have no idea why you don't want it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB makes me wonder if any 0.3.DL owners were spoken to at all. i know i wasn't

I'm surely he didn't listen to most part of people who work hard on 0.3.DL like you, wilton and others.

[HTTDIENTE]

Perhaps Kalkor is right, this is squalor (on screenshot). Of course, this is a joke, this is an example that DL cannot be taken and thrown away

[willttoonn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB makes me wonder if any 0.3.DL owners were spoken to at all. i know i wasn't

I would also like to know which of these owners gave their opinion on 0.3.DL, as I have outlined my thoughts as a server owner using version 0.3.DL in this topic and made my point very clear.

[Paddylsrp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyB makes me wonder if any 0.3.DL owners were spoken to at all. i know i wasn't

Been quite a while since I seen you Tommy (Patrick here from ye olden days of "The Gathering Area"). Funny how times of crisis can bring people together after 9 years.

Yet further testament of course to the fact that the decision to rid 0.3.DL from the community doesn't just affect one server here, or one server there (which would be farcical in it's own right) but effects a great many servers, on which some players have invested time across a multitude of them. I am not a developer. I wouldn't know the first thing about it, but I have played on TommyB's server in the past and more recently and seen how 0.3.DL has enabled it to grow, just like other roleplay servers like LS-RP. Given the number of people from other servers I haven't mentioned, I would estimate that such a decision effects an unthinking number of developers, testers, and even well and above those smaller groups, players.

You may well be correct. Perhaps the non-DL servers do have bigger numbers than that of the 0.3.DL branch, but there are a great many mitigating factors included in that, not least of all that 0.3.DL is not an available client on the main website (which was a questionable ploy in any case). Sure, some people simply aren't interested in custom skins; perhaps the gamemode just doesn't demand it. That's absolutely fine, the uploading of custom content is by no means mandatory in a 0.3.9 that includes the DL features. Some servers though — primarily the roleplay servers — do rely on custom skins to continue to deepen immersion, and establish a level of practicality that suits their law enforcement setups, political setups, and broaden neighborhoods that have a positive impact on what players can do. This even stretches out to the most fundamental things such as being a Deputy Sheriff and successfully roleplaying as a black man, or a black woman, or a hispanic man, or a hispanic woman, or any combination of race and gender not encapsulated in the base game skins. Beyond that, there is no logical reason that I can put my finger on that justifies the decision to devastate any percentage of your community. At what point does it flicker across your mind that it would be a good idea to expunge a massive portion of your work (and by extension expunge a massive portion of other people's work — which includes modders, not just developers) with no benefit of any kind? The posts since last night outline the issues here. Yes, some have vented with a tirade of abuse because they're angry. I think though that the main emotion going through the minds of many who have been using 0.3.DL to great benefit of their servers is nothing short of total despair and devastation.

Whatever your motives, and whatever the political landscape of today surrounding you and others, please do not set out to punish the hundreds of people who will be struck down and driven off by this decision, when a calm and level head, and the decision to amalgamate the best of both worlds can be achieved. We're all sat here with baited breath Kalcor.

Thanks.

[Sajugs]

Honestly, its the circle of life around here.

Kalcor knows he can do whatever the fuck he wants with no repercussions, because in a few weeks time we will have forgotten about this problem, just like we have forgotten about everything else that happened in the past, such as him nuking the entire Screenshots & Videos section, erasing years of SA-MP history.

Nothing will change if we continue to function the way we do.

[Drebin]

Honestly, and this is obviously an unpopular opinion, but you all act as if Kye is liable for updating this mod forever. As if you all signed a contract with him and that he must deliver as long as you want him to.

He did all this in his free time, because he wanted to, and if he wants to move on and leave SA-MP in the state it is in right now, he is absolutely free to do so.

It's obvious that SA-MP's player base has decreased to a size it can never recover from. But this is a natural process, this game will soon be two decades old after all.

I have moved on from this game over 5 years ago, and while I had an absolutely amazing experience with this whole community, I will never ever go back to playing, because everything will die someday. I'm a much better person now than I was 11 years ago when I joined SA-MP, and playing again is equal to throwing all this personal improvement over board to have something back that's dead. Like going back together with an ex from 10 years ago - you just don't fucking do that.

Let's all just take this situation as it is and let's all go our own ways. This time was amazing, but time moves on, let's not force ourselves to keep resurrecting something that's already dead.

[Paddylsrp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drebin Honestly, and this is obviously an unpopular opinion, but you all act as if Kye is liable for updating this mod forever. As if you all signed a contract with him and that he must deliver as long as you want him to. He did all this in his free time, because he wanted to, and if he wants to move on and leave SA-MP in the state it is in right now, he is absolutely free to do so.

I think that what you say is absolutely true, and if it was the case that Kalcor had stated that he was leaving SA-MP in this state, very few people would complain. However, with the most recent thing he said being:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalcor We've decided to not include the 0.3DL downloading feature in 0.3.9. If you have a server on 0.3DL and you want to come back to the main branch, you could contact me about possible inclusion of skins in to the 0.3.9 installer.

It seems that he's far from "leaving it as it is", but rather actively making efforts to remove and diminish the current product that is used by many.

Your argument is built on sound logic, but just like your analogy of ex-girlfriends is good advice, you equally don't want to be the person who came to the football park, decided you weren't happy and take the view that it's "your ball and nobody else is playing".