[SchurmanCQC]

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Originally Posted by Zhao That's of less importance than the loss of potential players.

Please politely correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't the confusion, as stated in my first post in this thread, the only reason for the "loss of potential players"?

[Whitetiger]

so don't use it for your server then. Why are you rpers always trying to ruin our (DMers) fun. you've gotten what you want for so many SA-MP updates. servers with legacy mode will have lower player counts if your theorys are right. Servers with legacy mode on are gonna be the hardcore players that have been playing for years anyways, new players aren't joining in on A/D servers. To be honest if it is disabled in a later version I see most (DM) people moving to 3z RC4 anyways (at least the hardcore)

also if you're going to post a "Communities that are against legacy mode" I can post a much longer list of "Communities that are FOR legacy mode". Also notice how your list will be only filled with RP servers, while mine would be filled with DM servers only.

SA-MP doesn't have record high player counts now for having no lag-shoot. if it was all about lag shoot and lost sooooooooooooooooo many players why does SA-MP consistently have more players than MTA?

[Zhao]

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Originally Posted by SchurmanCQC Please politely correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't the confusion, as stated in my first post in this thread, the only reason for the "loss of potential players"?

I thought you meant the confusion with existing players who already know how to lagshoot rather than the confusion for new players. These should be recognized as two separate problems.

One is about people like you and me who are familiar with lagshooting / lead aiming. We will get confused because we don't know what mode the server is in. This is resolvable via your suggestion, but I don't know if the average SA-MP player will understand what legacy mode is.

The other confusion is new players who never even find out what lagshooting is and leave because they are constantly killed and are no match for lagshooters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitetiger so don't use it for your server then. Why are you rpers always trying to ruin our (DMers) fun. you've gotten what you want for so many SA-MP updates. servers with legacy mode will have lower player counts if your theorys are right. Servers with legacy mode on are gonna be the hardcore players that have been playing for years anyways. To be honest if it is disabled in a later version I see most people moving to 3z RC4 anyways also if you're going to post a "Communities that are against legacy mode" I can post a much longer list of "Communities that are FOR legacy mode". Also notice how your list will be only filled with RP servers, while mine would be filled with DM servers only.

The difference being that in the long term the SA-MP community suffers in player count due to your servers enabling legacy mode. Whereas if you just accept the change and move with us (which you would have to do eventually anyway, it's just a matter of getting used to it) we would not lose potential players due to this bug as we have been doing for years.

I've already explained this in several replies to several people, but here you go:

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Originally Posted by Zhao It wasn't about how it affects individual servers but the SA-MP community as a whole. We will all be affected if this isn't removed. The average SA-MP player plays on more than one server and newer players try out several servers before they finally settle somewhere. I want to take this opportunity for SA-MP to gain more players rather than losing new potential players.

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Originally Posted by Zhao The "don't like it, don't use it"-argument is very poor because that's not the case I'm making against it. If a new player comes in and quits because of this bug (which many have over the years) then all of SA-MP loses a player, because that could have been a potential player for any of us. Do you want this community to grow or to lose potential players?

[SchurmanCQC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhao I thought you meant the confusion for new players rather than the confusion with existing players who already know how to lagshoot. These should be recognized as two separate problems. One is about people like you and me who are familiar with lagshooting / lead aiming. We will get confused because we don't know what mode the server is in. This is resolvable via your suggestion, but I don't know if the average SA-MP player will understand what legacy mode is.

Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Whitetiger]

You've lost more potential SA-MP players due to RP servers having shitty or no tutorials where people just spawn and run around for 5 minutes and leave. In servers I play on new players will quit because they're getting wrecked with or without legacy mode (~4-5 deagle shots in 1 second). The learning curve is high in SA-MP DM. your arguments conflict with each other: in one quote you say "new players try multiple servers before they finally settle somewhere", in another quote you say "Players will quit SA-MP after playing on only your server with legacy mode enabled".

you like to refer to it as a "bug". even if we agree and say yes it is a bug. you talk as if saying its a bug immediately denounces it. some bugs work in favor of the game, or it's competitive scene. for example: in Halo 2 there was a bug that let you shoot much faster with the Battle Rifle and it was used in every competitve enviroment in Halo 2. (or one of the halo games - i can't remember) The same situation exists in SA-MP with CBug. SA-MP wouldn't dare patch that.

Also you kind of hinted that legacy mode will be removed eventually. How do you know that? Can you see the future? Deprecated features can stay around for a long time. especially with the slow SA-MP updates. I don't see legacy mode being removed, but I suppose it would depend on the number of servers using it.

[Zhao]

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Originally Posted by Whitetiger You've lost more potential SA-MP players due to RP servers having shitty or no tutorials where people just spawn and run around for 5 minutes and leave.

That's an entirely different issue. I'm not here to discuss RP vs DM servers.

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Originally Posted by Whitetiger In servers I play on new players will quit because they're getting wrecked with or without legacy mode (~4-5 deagle shots in 1 second).

To say it doesn't make a difference with or without legacy mode is just ridiculous. There are many enjoying the advantages of being a better lagshooter or having their ping and/or FPS in their advantage. These people will have a much harder time trying to be Rambo if there's no lagshooting / lead aiming.

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Originally Posted by Whitetiger The learning curve is high in SA-MP DM. your arguments conflict with each other: in one quote you say "new players try multiple servers before they finally settle somewhere", in another quote you say "Players will quit SA-MP after playing on only your server with legacy mode enabled".

It's not conflicting at all. For one it's inconsistent and will cause confusion with both old and new players, but the bigger issue is that new players who come to try out SA-MP might quit if servers enable legacy mode; simply because they're no match for experienced lagshooters, don't know how to lagshoot or don't even know they need to lagshoot. We've already lost players for years due to this bug, so why would should we lose even more players to it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitetiger you like to refer to it as a "bug". as if saying its a bug immediately denounces it. for example: in Halo 2 there was a bug that let you shoot much faster with the Battle Rifle and it was used in every competitve enviroment in Halo 2. (or one of the halo games - i can't remember) The same situation exists in SA-MP with CBug. SA-MP wouldn't dare patch that.

Whatever it is it's definitely a bug, a flaw, a mistake and something that is broken and has cost SA-MP players. It's unfair to say the least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitetiger Also you kind of hinted that legacy mode will be removed eventually. How do you know that? Can you see the future? Deprecated features can stay around for a long time. especially with the slow SA-MP updates. I don't see legacy mode being removed, but I suppose it would depend on the number of servers using it.

I meant that theoretically. If there was no legacy mode and you decided to stay on 0.3x then you would have to move eventually. I explained in my first post why that is. Just like everyone else here I have absolutely no idea whether it will be kept or removed.

[niCe]

The legacy mode is a SA-MP schizophreny. Either please remove this 0.3z shooting update completely or remove the legacy mode. The compromise doesn't have any sense and will only cause a lot of confusion among players.

[Whitetiger]

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Originally Posted by Zhao That's an entirely different issue. I'm not here to discuss RP vs DM servers.

I don't really see how it's an entirely different issue. if you're argument is based on lag shooting has lost a huge number of players over the years heres a list of other things in SA-MP that also lose huge amounts of players:

- RP servers with bad tutorials
- RP servers with a high learning curve
- getting killed to many times in DM and rage quitting (which can happen in any game)
- Bad admins
- cheats (granted, this one is tough to patch)
- bad ban system (another one tough to patch)
- couldn't find a server they enjoyed

but in all reality. - sa-mp is increasing in players and always has been since 0.1

I seem to remember CoD players getting all up in arms when MW3 came out and they started getting shot around corners due to lag compensation, so there is also downsides to using skin shoot, but it is more user friendly and it should be used in public servers.

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To say it doesn't make a difference with or without legacy mode is just ridiculous. There are many enjoying the advantages of being a better lagshooter or having their ping and/or FPS in their advantage. These people will have a much harder time trying to be Rambo if there's no lagshooting / lead aiming.

Lead aim is enjoyed by:

- Low pingers with High FPS
- Low pingers with low FPS
- High pingers with high FPS
- high pingers with low FPS.

I could show you examples of each type. every group is aware that some are hard to hit, and some are much easier to hit

[Niko_boy]

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Originally Posted by king_hual This is a free mod, the developer does not have to put up with you people! When 0.3z RC1 was released, half the players cried about proper sync "being forced" (which, in my opinion, was silly). And NOW, people are crying about it NOT being forced? Oh, for crying out loud, make up your minds and deal with it!

Exactly.

i personally loved the idea as it gonna hurt no part of community rather its more benifcial. i Do support lead aiming and yeah great thats its there with a switch.

So i feel nothing wrong about it being added!

and i see communities opposing are mainly RP where there is simply NO or a LITTLE need for DM, so you dont even know how essential part Lead Aiming has became to advanced DM.

[Escapist]

To make it optional is the best choice.

I am against lag shooting and I've always been waiting for it to be fixed, but now it's done it's cool if servers have the choice to keep using the old and sometimes glorified lag-shootng system or not.

What does it change for you? Nothing. If you see servers with lag-shooting and you dn't like it, then don't connect, that's not difficult. Some prefer lag-shooting to remain so let them be for *** sake, don't be that selfish saying it's a bug and it has to be removed for everyone.

You don't tell others how to play, you're not the center of the universe so just let it be and be grateful Kalcor removed lag-shooting for who wanted it.

[Niko_boy]

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Originally Posted by OKStyle I want sync as in 0.2X: strict dependence pre-emption to certain ping. Shooting on the skins for newbies.

yeah LeadAiming Sync was so good in 0.2x

[Manyula]

The DM community is by far the smallest part of the whole samp community - with tendency to shrink even more, since other genres provide much better conditions, in terms of userfriendliness. I am very interested myself in increasing the DM Community, but lag shooting is not going to attract more people, whereas I am convinced that on-skin shooting will certainly. Again coming back to numbers (apparently pulled out of my ass): I am referring to the survey results here now. Why for god's sake would 85% of all players adopt the lead aiming style since they are now given a choice between syncs? Do you think more people will engage in DM with lag shooting? I hardly think so. DMlers should rather see the huge adantage the new sync brings with itself rather than regretting their efforts in getting used to lag shooting, all bitching around like "fake bullets" and stuff, coming again to the official gaming market of online third person shooters - none is complaining about "not really being hit".

[ViruZz]

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Originally Posted by Manyula The DM community is by far the smallest part of the whole samp community - with tendency to shrink even more, since other genres provide much better conditions, in terms of userfriendliness. I am very interested myself in increasing the DM Community, but lag shooting is not going to attract more people, whereas I am convinced that on-skin shooting will certainly. Again coming back to numbers (apparently pulled out of my ass): I am referring to the survey results here now. Why for god's sake would 85% of all players adopt the lead aiming style since they are now given a choice between syncs? Do you think more people will engage in DM with lag shooting? I hardly think so. DMlers should rather see the huge adantage the new sync brings with itself rather than regretting their efforts in getting used to lag shooting, all bitching around like "fake bullets" and stuff, coming again to the official gaming market of online third person shooters - none is complaining about "not really being hit".

First of all, I'm not sure what the SA:MP Team was even thinking about by making a survey about the sync. It should of been fixed and left alone, it's not our choice to make the SA-MP Perfect. If something needs to be fixed, then it needs to be fixed with no question ask and no going back as well.

[Diablosrouge]

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Originally Posted by Manyula The DM community is by far the smallest part of the whole samp community - with tendency to shrink even more, since other genres provide much better conditions, in terms of userfriendliness. I am very interested myself in increasing the DM Community, but lag shooting is not going to attract more people, whereas I am convinced that on-skin shooting will certainly. Again coming back to numbers (apparently pulled out of my ass): I am referring to the survey results here now. Why for god's sake would 85% of all players adopt the lead aiming style since they are now given a choice between syncs? Do you think more people will engage in DM with lag shooting? I hardly think so. DMlers should rather see the huge adantage the new sync brings with itself rather than regretting their efforts in getting used to lag shooting, all bitching around like "fake bullets" and stuff, coming again to the official gaming market of online third person shooters - none is complaining about "not really being hit".

Maybe because over all this time SA-MP's development was mostly focused on Roleplay features. I havent seen one, ONE single tournament organized by SA-MP nor any attempts on a decent anticheat ever since SAC was removed.
So i can say that it's a miracle that still a part of the DM community is still alive while on its own destiny even with all the cheating and bullshit going around.

[param0re]

I have not read this whole thread, but I but I have to say that the community of South America lives in lag shotting, I mean, south american`s servers are all lag shotting, people are used to it, and there are a lot of clans that only play on lag. In this community of SA:MP, we are nothing, I will not fight against it, but you guys need to know that half of community stopped playing SA:MP because of the first update. When developers announced the new update with optional sync, it was the spark of hope for these people, so what`s the problem of optional lag? If you don`t want to play on lag, go to a server with sync shot. I dont know if someone said this before, but for my whole country and friends, lag is the thing that turns you into a good player or a noob, we have a lot of styles of game, the famous one is AAD. If you are a South American and dont agree with me, sorry, i`m speaking for the majority.

[Manyula]

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Originally Posted by Diablosrouge Maybe because over all this time SA-MP's development was mostly focused on Roleplay features. I havent seen one, ONE single tournament organized by SA-MP nor any attempts on a decent anticheat ever since SAC was removed. So i can say that it's a miracle that still a part of the DM community is still alive while on its own destiny even with all the cheating and bullshit going around.

That is not true. The huge success of the RP genre in SA-MP is of course initiated by the developers. But I really doubt SA-MP was created in order to only focus on RP elements. SA-MPs scripters made a huge success out of it due to the endless possibilities the mod brings with itself in terms of roleplay. I would never argue that RP is the main branch of SA-MP - it is the most popular and most frequently played though.

Cheating on a DM server or a RP server is totally the same, so it's not an issue that depends on the genre.

I don't get what you're aiming at, that the SA-MP team hasn't organized a tournament yet. Do you mean DM?

[Diablosrouge]

Unless there are Roleplaying tournaments i dont see what other tournaments there are to organize besides Deathmatch. Deathmatching tournaments organized by SA-MP officials would have way more advertising and spread radius than any other tournament organized by any other DM community or entity. If it had anticheat support, which it should, then it would be even better and allow for people who generally dont take part in DM events to take part in it.
A football league type championship season would be for example one good type of event SA-MP could have, with one or more divisions depending on participation to determine who wins the title of that season's year.
Anyway now it's too late, DM is dead and it will die even more each day that passes, GTA 5 will be out for PC in a couple of months so part of the DM community which is still active nowadays will probably just leave to GTA 5 Online.

The thing is that the functions we needed for DM came out way too later than the functions RP scripts could use.
By the time we got some interesting functions for DM (0.3d+, despite of the speed change which completely changed the game) the RP scripters had more than enough time to cement their scripts with the functions that were out.

Obviously a RP can always be more polished, contain more features etc than a DM script, a DM script is meant to be plain and simple so it doesnt generate random lag where it isn't needed.

[Infinity]

This topic perfectly describes a large portion of this community:
Little kids who can't show respect for any opinion but their own.

[Manyula]

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Originally Posted by Infinity This topic perfectly describes a large portion of this community: Little kids who can't show respect for any opinion but their own.

You are not contributing anything but worthless shit to this topic. For the record: this is a discussion. Nobody denies the opposite opinion, were just stating arguments pro and con our opinion. Your post is the perfect example of users posting useless crap.

If you want to say anything concerning the topic, then please do so. But I am asking you to provide good reasons.

B2T: Can someone please explain to me what the hell a RP tournament is?! Who wins it? How is RP competitive?

[Madzior_]

I don't understand all those things. New shooting mode is that what we were waiting for about five years. I don't see sense to use old lag-shoot mode. But if anyone see that he can change it. In my opinion most servers will be using new feature.