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Is it still worth it? - Printable Version

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Re: Is it still worth it? - amarelinhoxx - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by REYO
View Post
To me, this thread appears to be running its course and taking direction in circles. Imagine if all the people here poured energy into productively helping the mod and making something more of it. With that, we'd be at 0.4 in a week. (figure of speech)

One of the things that bother me Kalcor is you choose to be villainized, you have the power to change it - you can redeem your "imagine" in the snap of a finger but you're not making that move, why?

You're a bright dude, you managed to pull it all off after countless of backstabs and frustration the MTA team gave you. You made it from scratch without Rockstar's support and it got popular, it trended and people stuck. Clap to that, but you have your flaws and stupid decisions as per se, not to be biased.

In my opinion, this fiasco was bound to happen and will again if nothing is resolved, there were already 6 this year alone, people are just ready to burst from time to time in the hopes of getting answers and seeing progress. Like truly, I think you have the skills and potential in you to pull what Rockstar pulled to their competitors. (https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Opposition_Memorial)
  • Why don't you use a polling system on these forums to get results from players about certain topics? Literally, all your official posts get buried, therefore establish proper ways of communication i.e. poll system.
  • Unite the two (3?) versions together as a way of unison and stability between the player masses alongside DL.
  • SA-MP in one stable version will be the unison needed to crush the opposition i.e. MTA.

There's a lot of people here that are willing to offer voluntary support for the greater good of the mod, be it gta-modding, development or even marketing - why not make use of it?
I also agree with you

Re: Is it still worth it? - kennytowN - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by REYO
View Post
To me, this thread appears to be running its course and taking direction in circles. Imagine if all the people here poured energy into productively helping the mod and making something more of it. With that, we'd be at 0.4 in a week. (figure of speech)

One of the things that bother me Kalcor is you choose to be villainized, you have the power to change it - you can redeem your "imagine" in the snap of a finger but you're not making that move, why?

You're a bright dude, you managed to pull it all off after countless of backstabs and frustration the MTA team gave you. You made it from scratch without Rockstar's support and it got popular, it trended and people stuck. Clap to that, but you have your flaws and stupid decisions as per se, not to be biased.

In my opinion, this fiasco was bound to happen and will again if nothing is resolved, there were already 6 this year alone, people are just ready to burst from time to time in the hopes of getting answers and seeing progress. Like truly, I think you have the skills and potential in you to pull what Rockstar pulled to their competitors. (https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Opposition_Memorial)
  • Why don't you use a polling system on these forums to get results from players about certain topics? Literally, all your official posts get buried, therefore establish proper ways of communication i.e. poll system.
  • Unite the two (3?) versions together as a way of unison and stability between the player masses alongside DL.
  • SA-MP in one stable version will be the unison needed to crush the opposition i.e. MTA.

There's a lot of people here that are willing to offer voluntary support for the greater good of the mod, be it gta-modding, development or even marketing - why not make use of it?
Yes, here the whole forum will agree with you.

Re: Is it still worth it? - n0minal - 31.10.2019

I just think you're underestimating 0.3DL based on the numbers you got from an unofficial version, the lack of interest on SAMP modeling is directly linked to the fact that it's unofficial IMHO. When 0.3.8 was canceled I felt really disappointed and switched back to 0.3.7 cause I knew most of my concurrent servers wouldn't switch to a forked version, same thing remains nowadays, so people won't migrate unless everyone else does too.

Getting LSRP as an example, despite they had a peak of users after switching over to 0.3DL, their number decreased again because some of the hyped players moved away and their current players just did not switch over to 0.3DL cause if they do so, they wouldn't be able to play other servers when they tired of role-playing.

I still think you should listen the community, huge developers are still around and active doing their servers, just take niCe for example and TommyB, and we are all asking you the same man, merge DL into 0.3.9 please, just do a config to enable or disable model downloading and it'll be fine.

Re: Is it still worth it? - kennytowN - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor
View Post
That's speculation on your part. I have the actual code right in front of me.

It definitely needs to be removed from sa-mp.
If you think that removing CreateMenu is a good idea, then many will simply disagree with you, this will ruin some points on Russian-language servers. Many use this function to change the character’s skin, tuning the transport, and in the end in spectating mode.

Re: Is it still worth it? - thekillergreece - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor
View Post
I've lost rc-rp.
I don't think you lost them but you simply refuse to collaborate / work with them anymore because of X personal reasons even though they are willing to work with you. So.

Seriously, we are asking one thing, just one. Merge the two versions. What will someone lose if that happens?

Re: Is it still worth it? - RoboN1X - 31.10.2019

So ermm you are fine removing the native, i'd also think the same if i was betrayed... But why you do not seems confident with your own natives and 0.3DL?

From my experience after i observe and asked players to update from R1 and R3 to fix issue, some players are stubborn since their non clean game (with mod scripts) will break if they update... If i'm not wrong we would expect the same thing if i ask player to go to 0.3.9? It's OK that previously player can still join 0.3.7 with R1 without updating to R3, but I'm sure this will be different case?

Re: Is it still worth it? - Burridge - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor
View Post
I've lost ls-rp, crazybob's, gamerx, partyserver, rc-rp. I wouldn't get too excited about any new release.
Well, it seems that's not entirely true in the case of rc-rp at least based on TommyB's posts in this thread, although I realise bridges have been burned in regards to that particular case I don't think that means you should entirely ignore what's being said by Tommy in this thread. He's provided some statistics to back up his case and from reading this thread I think there is a strong case for having DL merge into the main branch finally and becoming 0.3.9 (or whatever you decide to call the version). There's also niCe. He has a large community from what I can tell and is giving some great feedback in this thread.

The low adoption of DL I do not think comes down to the features it enabled, more so the split that happened because of it not becoming part of the main branch but still being out in the open on the forums for people to download and use. Most people probably never come to the forums, they go to the website, see the latest release is 0.3.7, download that and play it, or they might even see that there were roughly yearly releases and then 0.3.7 in 2015 it just stopped as far as a lot of new people coming to the main website are concerned.

I genuinely believe that if DL is merged into the main branch and becomes 0.3.9 along with some minor changes that people have been suggesting in this thread it would be an overall positive release and well regarded by the community as a whole. Then there would be no more schism between DL and 0.3.7 because they'd become one and the same with some minor fixes/additions.

You might find that the feedback for the DL features increases as more servers adopt them due to it being on the main branch, and no longer needing to worry that it might be canned and their hard work on models etc. going down the drain.

Re: Is it still worth it? - Mmartin - 31.10.2019

0.3.7-DL did not hurt LS-RP.

We’ve a team of modders who support the server by creating custom mods for factions and expand the general pool of mods for everyone by a great deal. We currently have 239 custom skins. They’ve all been made by our community, for our community. Factions ask for new ones all the time, of everyone who has been online in 2019, about 1/3 of them currently using a custom skin.

There are dozens of things you can name that could’ve hurt lsrp player base. Be it players growing tired of rp, moving on to different rp mods or servers, leaving because of lack of updates before I found a viable replacement for my ingame development, me being unable to deliver on a promise after promise, players being unhappy with a decision or another we’ve taken in general, and so on. DL is not one of them. I know because once players start complaining about something, it’ll get to me one way or another - whether it’s countless forum threads, or word going up the chain of command. I’ve heard hundreds of moans over everything I’ve listed here and more, but not once did anyone complain about custom skins.

You did not lose ls-rp, kye. You dropped ls-rp. You removed us all from the beta group because I haven’t noticed your thread in the beta section after you returned from yet another half year absence of yours. It doesn’t matter I was jumping on IRC on a monthly basis to ask if anyone’s seen you around. You had no interest in any form of communication with ls-rp.

I strongly believe moving forward without DL will be the final nail in the coffin for both LSRP and SAMP. Do as you wish, but present your evidence beyond “I’m sure DL Is killing samp!”. So far you’ve had dozens of server owners and players come forward to oppose the idea, but I really don’t see many people in favor of no DL presenting actual arguments.

Give us an option to toggle. Display warnings for players when they attempt to connect to a server which has downloadable features. Stop pretending you’re actually listening to server owners - you only do when it benefits your agenda.

Re: Is it still worth it? - LocMax - 31.10.2019

Considering this is as you stated yourself a most likely final major update for SA-MP, I would say, please have understanding for what the server owners / community here state and ask for. You said you lost RC-RP, LS-RP, and others, but you have them posting right in this topic and alongside many other server owners that are also a large chunk of SA-MP.

While I don't run a large server, we still have a consistent player base and we had numerous requests to move to DL version, which we couldn't accept simply due to the fact that it was never made official and never made clearly available for download aside of it being shoved down in the homepage website below everything else.

You have put effort into creating these major changes that DL brings, you have major support in this topic to merge it into a final version and make it optional for use. You have owners of major servers providing you their support for that as well. Do not let it all go to waste because of sheer numbers that you see, without taking into consideration the reasoning behind why a lot of servers haven't switched. It's a gamble for all of them to move to an unofficial version which doesn't have public attention.

So, kindly, allow us to have the final SA-MP update be something we will love to have, and that we can properly make use of, as I am highly confident that there will be a major boost in the number of servers and players making use of the DL features if it ever became official.

Re: Is it still worth it? - OstGot - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1n1vv
View Post
Again. All the big servers use RackNet. The DL has other addresses.
And aren't you confused by the fact that any new version will actually have different addresses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavan
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Not to mention other servers from other countries.

Russia, Brazil...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennytowN
View Post
If you think that removing CreateMenu is a good idea, then many will simply disagree with you, this will ruin some points on Russian-language servers.
I think many of them don't believe in the truth of the fact that these servers are really so big and have such online and therefore don't consider them at all. And this is very sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboN1X
View Post
From my experience after i observe and asked players to update from R1 and R3 to fix issue, some players are stubborn since their non clean game (with mod scripts) will break if they update... If i'm not wrong we would expect the same thing if i ask player to go to 0.3.9? It's OK that previously player can still join 0.3.7 with R1 without updating to R3, but I'm sure this will be different case?
You are faced with this situation only because r3 is an optional client update, without which (with r1 and r2 versions) you can still play on the server. Each new major version of samp quickly overcame this barrier as soon as it came to the impossibility of playing on most servers that switched to the new version if you're using an old client version. Only 0.3.DL, which is still a "beta" release, was the one to break this chain, but there were fairly obvious reasons already mentioned several times by many people on previous pages.

Re: Is it still worth it? - $Marco$ - 31.10.2019

I come back after a few days and Kalcor is dropping a new version on us, what did you guys do to him?

P.S
(When did @Jay stopped being a mod in the forum?)

Re: Is it still worth it? - RoboN1X - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by OstGot
View Post
You are faced with this situation only because r3 is an optional client update, without which (with r1 and r2 versions) you can still play on the server. Each new major version of samp quickly overcame this barrier as soon as it came to the impossibility of playing on most servers that switched to the new version if you're using an old client version. Only 0.3.DL, which is still a "beta" release, was the one to break this chain, but there were fairly obvious reasons already mentioned several times by many people on previous pages.
I already know about optional, major, AND R version thingy, no need to explain that.. previous page already mentioned reasons where plugin developer are smart to adapt the update, but that's for the server side... So moving both client and server to 0.3.9 requiring players to update so i would expect somewhat similar when i ask people moving from R1 to R3 where they are stubborn staying R1, means they are likely not going like 0.3.9 if the client has not improved than just the address change? making it not worth for the player side... Moving to other version already need long time for the server waiting all players to update... I just need to make sure this release wont go somewhat confusing anymore like 0.3.DL with download link and info missing without going forums, then they mostly stay on 0.3.7 unless forced..

Re: Is it still worth it? - OstGot - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboN1X
View Post
means they are likely not going like 0.3.9 if the client has not improved than just the address change
Ah, in this case it will obviously be a failure and I absolutely agree with you then. Initially I had in mind that it would not be worth fearing that players ignore the new version if it might interest developers with new important functionality/fixes and at the same time be an official release, available in changelog on the main page of sa-mp.com and in the download section.

Re: Is it still worth it? - willttoonn - 31.10.2019

Hello Kalcor,

I saw in some posts that you have no interest in continuing with 0.3.DL in a future 0.3.7 to 0.3.9 upgrade. I believe what I will say has already been said by the major roleplay servers, in the Brazilian community I believe my server is the largest and one of the only ones that uses version 0.3.DL in order to take advantage of it to the extreme.

I'd like to try to get you to change your idea of ​​discontinuing 0.3.DL updates, in fact I don't see what can be more updated in the release other than security enhancements by following major version updates and adding other possibilities of customizations such as animations, vehicles and etc.

Currently my server has 1.155 custom mod files (skins and objects), we have done promising things over the last two years with this possibility, we have leveraged our server in development aspects that we could not even dream of in the past years.

Regarding the amount of players, this is not something that directly affects roleplay servers, after all, they all have whitelist and account creation is not simply going through the internet or hosted tab and playing, it has to go to the site, apply and get approved to play. This already makes it very difficult for new players to join. Just like LSRP, my server has lost a considerable amount of players this year, before we had 180 to 200 players online, we currently have 110 to 140 on a day to day basis and it's not the mod's fault but the infinite possibilities that players have. have nowadays to occupy their time on the computer.

My text is long, I hope you have read at least here. I will present what I accomplished along with my community during the years I was with 0.3.DL.
That's it. Kalcor if you still think you should not update to version 0.3.DL, at least keep it up to date with security items that are updated in the major version.

Re: Is it still worth it? - ConejoBlanco - 31.10.2019

Then you have already made your decision, just wait and see the results.

Re: Is it still worth it? - Kalcor - 31.10.2019

I've read the other posts here, but don't have a response at this point.

Someone informed me that their server uses CreateMenu and they're not in a position to update their script. So, CreateMenu is going back in in some form, with security fixes.

Re: Is it still worth it? - thekillergreece - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor
View Post
I've read the other posts here, but don't have a response at this point.

Someone informed me that their server uses CreateMenu and they're not in a position to update their script. So, CreateMenu is going back in in some form, with security fixes.
Please read and respond Mmartin's, TommyB's and willttoonn's comments. They are absolutely worth to read, taken in consideration and responded accordingly. Don't avoid them.

We are just only asking to merge the versions, that's it. You seen how huge potential the DL version brings.

Re: Is it still worth it? - Tanz - 31.10.2019

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor
View Post
I've read the other posts here, but don't have a response at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekillergreece
View Post
Please read and respond Mmartin's, TommyB's and willttoonn's comments. They are absolutely worth to read, taken in consideration and responded accordingly. Don't avoid them.
I'm not sure if you have read what Kalcor has written. I wasn't expecting any better since at least 3 of your most recent posts ask for an automatic update downloader which Kalcor said he does not agree with.

Maybe you would benefit from installing a Text-To-Speech browser add-on so forum posts can be read out to you.

-----

The posts by mmartin, tommyb and willttoonn are very interesting. However, the following still stands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcor
View Post
Instead of pointing the finger at me, why don't you guys take a look in the mirror? There are servers that have custom models and new skins, but they don't want other servers having access to them.

So you're fine with me adding new skins and new objects, but when it comes time to contribute something back, nothing. Thus the failure of DL.
If all these 'large' servers want to see a merge between 0.3.DL and 0.3.7 (0.3.9), what's stopping them from releasing content for others to use? Fair enough willttoonn has written a guide on the redirectdownload feature. But, otherwise their arguments could be selfish and do not take into account the wider SA-MP community.

Re: Is it still worth it? - Davis - 31.10.2019

I'm touching a little bit here on points that were already made by Mmartin in his post, but it's definitely fair to say that 0.3DL wasn't a factor of the LS:RP playerbase dropping. I spent a little while trying to figure out what happened, whether it was the approach that I was taking with Game Development, the frequency of the updates, the features that we added weren't as desired as originally thought, etc, and it was definitely a collection of problems:

1) We weren't updating frequently enough
2) The domain swap from ls-rp.com to ls-rp.io and broken links
3) The outages that we had on the forum frequently for a little while
4) The playerbase of the mod dropping in general

We definitely haven't seen any direct connections to the requirement to download content on our server, and our playerbase seeing a decrease, so I don't think it would be fair for us to scapegoat that as a reason (bear in mind, it took us a little while to properly leverage custom models/objects).

If anything, we saw a surge in interest with the release of custom objects, especially when we started leveraging it properly. It's allowed us to make significant changes to the map, without affecting the look and feel of the vanilla version of the game. Here's an example (https://imgur.com/a/WRPYHwu) of an area of the map that we replaced to fit a police headquarters and a strip mall, which wouldn't have been possible without 0.3DL. The opportunities are endless, and our players appreciate that.

It's also definitely not the waiting to download content that players who frequent LS:RP care about, there's already an application process that takes a few hours at best (to get reviewed), they don't care about an extra couple of minutes of content downloads for a more immersive playing experience.

All in all, we spent a lot of time studying the playerbase decrease, but the point that I'm trying to make is that I can say with confidence that downloading content was not a factor in it, that's something that I'm sure of.

The best way forward here is to put the control in the hands of the server, let them decide whether or not they want to toggle the download capabilities but make sure that they're available. There's one thing I am sure of, creating a further divide in SA:MP versions, and even more uncertainty around 0.3DL, isn't going to do any good for any of the parties involved.

Re: Is it still worth it? - Felipe_Freeze - 31.10.2019

I believe removing DL will be a big step back and would only cause more players to lose ...
Prior to the release of DL I was discouraged with SAMP after long years playing.

I came back when DL was announced, after all, I could not stand to see several players with the same skins of each other, I'm a roleplayer, and I find it very annoying to get in one place and have 4 or 5 players with the same skin, DL partially got us out of it.

New object models also help improve our game, and well, about not becoming a non-SA-MP / GTA style game, I believe none of us who play samp wants it, so I don't see why limiting or removing anything that We have to customize today.

Many players await new possibilities in DL, such as vehicles, weapons and animations, which could further improve our game, bring new airs, and all without losing the essence of GTA san Andreas.

Let's face it, if someone here was looking to make a server with trillions of mods, making it totally different from GTA SA, surely that person would already be in MTA.

SA-MP has its essence, and we know what it is, and most players base comes to SA-MP looking for it.

When we talk about mods, we talk about those who get used to GTA. Low Poly.

Will there be servers that will run away from it? Of course yes.
But will the community, the players, identify with this server?
Why frankly, as I said, if anyone wants to escape the GTA / SAMP environment, the MTA is years ahead.

We don't abandon SAMP because it has the essence we are looking for, and server mods when out of GTA standards are badly regarded by players.