[Rob_Maate]

Hi. I was wondering if it's possible to make a sort of "community announcement" on some player names/IP's that have been blacklisted from my server?

I have come across a few players I feel the need to warn others about. Is there a way of doing this in coherence with the forum rules and regulations?

[Wesley221]

This can be scripted easy. Make a new text file, which is stored in the scriptfile folder, where you add the names and ip's of the players you dont want to join your server. Then check when you connect the playerid's ip & name, then compare it with the names & ip's in the file, and if they compare you kick them because they have a blacklisted ip/name. If you need more help, try to ask in the 'Script Request Threa(d/t?)'.

[Emmet_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ****** There was a community ban list (IIRC it was "SpunkBuster", or something similar). I don't seem to be able to find it at the minute but you could try investigating that.

SprunkBuster is no longer running anymore for some reason, and it was always stuck on 22,137 banned IP addresses, and the last update was on the 13th of August 2009, so I guess it's no longer being used.

[|_ⒾⓇⓄN_ⒹⓄG_|]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmet_ SprunkBuster is no longer running anymore for some reason, and it was always stuck on 22,137 banned IP addresses, and the last update was on the 13th of August 2009, so I guess it's no longer being used.

http://www.sprunkbuster.com
so many ip bans.....

[ca2k]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ****** Oh, that's a shame, I feel a replacement coming on... Edit: I don't want to hijack the thread (please answer the OP's question if you have a better answer than the now defunct SprunkBuster), but as an addendum to that question, if you could have a new system like that, what would you want to see in it? How would you see it working? What are acceptable levels of evidence for globally banning a player etc - trusted servers can ban anyone, many servers banning the same name/IP combination flag it up etc? I am a coder, so I'm confident that I can develop any of these systems, but I am not a server admin or server owner so I can't profess to have expertise in this area, and can't make informed decisions about what the best way to present this system is from that side.

1) SQL would be easiest way, having some sort of php works aswell to handle the data. You would need a group of people submitting those lists and updating them regulary.
2) Just plain IPs is quite useless, having ranges would be far more efficient. If you ban a range from your server then the person behind that range must do something really horrible.

Then again, why bother with such work which needs so much human input and crossrefference? I am not familiar with sa-mp so much nor its history but most games I've played has got a built-in anticheat, where in first place you can't even use cheats. Now other topic is DDOSers and other kiddies which try various tools and ways to simply put 'fuck up' a server/forums - so this OT tool would be really useful for every community. So you have my support incase you decide to go ahead with this project

[MP2]

You should make an anti-cheat - it would be AMAZING.

[playbox12]

You can make a very decent AC in PAWN, just use your imagination instead of getting everything nativly handed to you.

To anwser ******'s question;

There are quite a few things to take in account, for example people that would abuse a service like this (banning people for no valid reason, adding them to the list for personal spite).

I would suggest to allow every server to use the service but only have the ability to check if incomming players are banned, if they want the abbility to add players to the banned list, they should apply first to become a 'trusted server'. Trusted servers would have the possibility to add people to the banned list (perhaps linked to samp.ban).

The lookup service should be similar to that of sprunkbuster, but a little more detailed, perhaps servers would have to provide valid proof of the players wrongdoing.

[ca2k]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ****** Methods of internal implementation (SQL etc) aren't really an issue, in this case that is the most obvious solution so I'm not that bothered about getting input on that (no offense). I was more interested in the usage side, for example your comment on human input - a link to an AC would be handy. The comment on not requiring this and instead just blocking cheats is WAY beyond the scope of what we can do. It's been tried before and the sad fact is that there are too many people writing too many cheats to keep up - if one is blocked they just modify it slightly and re-release.

Yeah sorry, just tried to be helpful.

Let's see then:

If you could have a new system like that, what would you want to see in it?
A webpage gathering the lists of ranges of abusers/hackers.
How would you see it working?
A trusted group of people (perhaps servers only appearing on hosted list - as it shows seriousness?) updating the lists of ranges. Then we could have an include(plugin?) which would automatically ban any of the IPs belonging to those ranges.

Basically it would be same as already mentioned SprunkBuster but instead of banning IPs it would be more efficient because it would blacklist ranges.

[XGh0stz]

This is rather difficult to discuss because you must think on behalf of every Server Owner that would use such a system (Such as Sprunk Buster). I'm fairly certain alot of owners would actually be against IP Range Banning due to the fact it may also ban innocents & then the possibility of the banned target finding a way around that ban anyways, so I don't recommend IP Range Bans for this reason...

However, single IP Banning alone wouldn't do very much as most IPs simply change. Banning a player by name alone isn't recommended either because there are alot of common names used by multiple players. But then of course could easily just be evading by simply changing the name. But what I can suggest is maybe comparing the IP Range of a Banned IP along with a matching Banned Name.

Either way though, I personally don't see the worth of scripting such a system due to its lack of effectiveness. It just seems the system would only block something like 10/100 Hackers. My ideal solution of handling hackers is completely diffirent though since it doesn't involve banning. However, it's not globally & might throw people off topic here, so I won't mention it.

Banning players who have been banned from a X amount of other servers isn't a bad thought, but the question would then be, how many 'Idiot' Server Owners who ban without proper reason use this system? Another idea regarding this system, perphaps giving the option of servers unbanning players as well. Although this might of already been installed or whatever, but just throwing that out there just in case.

Personally, would I ever use such a system for any of my server(s)? No, I don't think I would just for the fact that I feel I should deal with every hacker or whatever as they come. There is also the chance that some of these hackers realize thier mistakes & stop the cheating & in that case I would give them another chance etc.

These are just my opnions & views about such a system though, I still wish you the best of luck if you decide to follow through with it

[ca2k]

Another thing that has been on my mind would be having a webpage holding accounts, to actually play on some server that has that include/plugin you need to register an account. That way you could control the banevaders by simply checking which IP its been registered from and so on.

This is a bad method, because a user would rather join some other server than register on 3rdparty site...

[XGh0stz]

Now that seems like it would work out great... Just need to be careful on which servers to trust, alot of strict RP Servers that are considered trustworthy & even most popular, but could also end up with reasons such as: Driving on the wrong side of the road, Meta Gaming, Abusing Ads, etc. (Which of course would have nothing to do with a DM server for example)

Unless maybe there is a seperate ban command that adds to the system blacklist...
(And User Agreements to just ban to this blacklist only for the reason of Hacking)
{For the Trusted Servers}

[XGh0stz]

It all depends on how its entered into the system, for example would an administrator have to type in the catagory where it belongs with each ban or maybe the system automatically filters the Reason of the ban to determine the correct catagory? Auto-Filtering in that way would mean alot of work with Keywords and that list would be huge, but having each administrator type in whatever catagory is extra strain & may use a general catagory no matter what the reason really is. When it comes down to it, it's trusting people & not just Server Owners, but ALL Admins.

But even with just 1 New Administrator adding improper bans (Score Hacking, lol, it's true, I've seen this) whether or not on a trusted server would add up in the system. Server Owners might not even know about having such an administrator before it's too late. So 1 New Administrator per Server & say we have 20 Servers using the system, then say the New Administrator bans about 5 players per day. 100 wrongful bans going into the system each day...

However, your idea with being Globally Banned across an X amount of servers before actually activating the ban in the Blacklist was good. I'd suggest using a percentage of some sort for the X amount, but if the Servers List is too small or large, using some set amount. Just to start: 25% of all listed servers, if server count is under 5, then 3 of the servers that banned the player or if the server count is over 50, then 15 of the servers that banned the player.

Sorry, just waking up while responding, but something along these lines I think would work nicely for everyone...

[Rob_Maate]

I don't mean to be a necro but I'm currently developing this. The basic framework is as follows.

1. There are two (2) MySQL databases that store ban information.
2. The API for this system is scripted in PHP.
3. Submissions are only permitted from pre-determined IP's with a unique serial key.
4. The ban LIST is available both on the website and through the API. You will be able to check any IP against the global banlist.
5. To submit a ban, you need to register and be approved. Entrances will not be accepted from servers who lack administrative decency or questionable ethics.
6. Users who have had their IPs added to the global database may request it's removal by using the "Removal Submission Form" located on the website. This will generate a case, in which the response will be an investigation into the cause of the ban and whether it was deserved.
7. The list of submission-approved servers will be dynamic (ie you will not be immune from removal should you abuse the services.)
8. The service will be free-of-charge.
9. The list will be maintained by global 'moderators' who will respond to ban-removal requests and regulate approval/removal

The submission fields are as follows:

-BanID (Auto Generated - Will act as the primary key)
-ServerID (Autoplaced - Your server's unique identifier)
-HostIP (The IP from which the ban was placed)
-Banning Administrator (Up to 30 characters long)
-Banned Username (Up to 30 characters long)
-Banned IP (Up to 30 characters long)
-Ban Type (Integer, a list of defines will appear in the 'access include' i'll publish in roughly a week
-Ban Date (Auto Generated)
-Ban Reason (The reason supplied with the ban)

General members of the public will be able to view the NAME of the banning server, the username, IP and reason associated with the banned player.

The API will provide access to all fields.

Each ServerID will be assigned a 'trusted' level out of 5. Servers utilizing the API may choose to only check against bans with a trusted level > 3 etc. This level will be managed by the 'moderators'.

If you have any ideas/suggestions, would like to get involved or would like to submit an application to offer submissions to the database, please do not hesitate to contact me via PM, skype or MSN. I will provide contact details to you if you request them

[Andrew_Razato]

Sounds like a good idea i would completely feel this would be necessary

[Calgon]

What if the moderators you hire refuse to unban people they dislike?

Also, there's a huge problem with banning hackers. Just because a player hacked on another server, it doesn't mean they're going to do so on yours. A lot of players from roleplay communities seem to hack on DM servers when they're bored and were banned by SprunkBuster, this was a serious problem when I used SprunkBuster. I'm not denying they deserve to be banned, but it's going to lower player counts on servers.

Perhaps you could detect how many times a certain IP was submitted as a hacker by unreliable servers, then ban them. If they hack on just a single server, I don't see them as a real problem, but if they just go around hacking on all servers, then they shouldn't be allowed to play.

Sorry to sound so negative, but there never really was a positive reception to SprunkBuster from a lot of people and I can understand why.

[[MM]IKKE]

afaik, the problem with sprunkbuster was the reliability. It only added bans by automated systems (so human factors, disliking etc were filtered out), but sometimes those systems bugged as well. And at that moment, it was hard to get an unban. Plain example: on a server, one of the head admins got banned for armour hacks. He tried to appeal his ban. The owner of the server was inactive, thus couldn't confirm the bug in the anti-cheat, whilst all the other members of the administration team confirmed it. He never got his unban. And thus succeeded at evading it afterwards, with a little help...

Other thing is the generalisation of dynamic IPs. More and more people have dynamic IP. An IP ban would thus not cause the hacker to be banned, but also other people to be unfairly banned (that'd be rare, but more frequent if the system gets used overall).

A solution to this would be to make an anti-cheat included in it, but then you create new problems: not all servers use the same stuff, eg on freeroam servers you can easily have armour, whilst in others it's rare. Second thing would be that a public anti-cheat could lead to custom hacks by-passing this one. Just like computer viruses, cheats will always exist.

[Saurik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgon What if the moderators you hire refuse to unban people they dislike? Also, there's a huge problem with banning hackers. Just because a player hacked on another server, it doesn't mean they're going to do so on yours. A lot of players from roleplay communities seem to hack on DM servers when they're bored and were banned by SprunkBuster, this was a serious problem when I used SprunkBuster. I'm not denying they deserve to be banned, but it's going to lower player counts on servers. Perhaps you could detect how many times a certain IP was submitted as a hacker by unreliable servers, then ban them. If they hack on just a single server, I don't see them as a real problem, but if they just go around hacking on all servers, then they shouldn't be allowed to play. Sorry to sound so negative, but there never really was a positive reception to SprunkBuster from a lot of people and I can understand why.

I pretty much agree with everything he said.


Also, is anyone trying to actually start this project?

[FufLa]

It's not a problem at all to start this project, the problem is it wont be very effective due to dynamic IP's and other reasons listed above. The easiest way would be for yourself to create an effective anti-cheat and get a good administrative team. Having a global banlist probably wont help much.

[Rob_Maate]

You all have the wrong idea as to what the point of this project is.

In my honest opinion, hacking health/armor doesn't warrant being removed from SA-MP indefinately. We all make mistakes and we all experiment.

This IS a blacklist, but it is not a banlist. Utilizing this new feature will not prevent individuals listed from accessing your server unless you code it specifically to do so.

What it WILL do however will give TRUSTED servers the ability to add 'records' of a player's idiocies and fuckups.

What it will also do is provide an avenue for SA-MP communities to compare it's players against the blacklist in any way they like, filtering by server 'trust' level, the type of server the player was banned on, the type of ban received etc.

It's not about "YOU CANNOT PLAY IF YOU USE CHEATS", rather a way to keep tabs on who does what, and to allow you as a server owner to decide if you want these individuals as a part of your community. You can choose at any time to completely remove the checking process from your script, or to use the results of the process in any capacity you see fit under the terms of service.

@Calgon, I understand the point you are making in regards to the 'human error' component of hiring people as moderators. This is totally understandable considering people are not perfect. Especially within SA-MP, a global community not particularly recognized for it's contributions to humanitarian aide and fair-play. That being said however, there will be strict rules and guidelines governing how applications are answered, managed and materialized. There will never be a time when any one individual has ultimate control over any given listing on the appeal. It will be open for discussion, evidence will be brought forward from both sides and an educated decision will follow this process.

Also, any individual chosen to take part in the moderation of this list will be very thoroughly scrutinized and moderated themselves. The role is not a joke, nor will we accept any form of abuse from any clients/staff.

This is an information service. It's not designed to ban everyone with cheat-tools, or there'd be no-one left.
It's about providing server-owners with the opportunity to not only build character-profiles on community members, but also to enable the prevention of serial anti-social dickheads taking your community and using it as a sheet of toilet paper.

[Rob_Maate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ****** I have been playing SA:MP for many years and have never downloaded cheats, in fact I have never used them in ANY MP game so don't assume that everyone is as bad as you are - there is NO excuse!

Well firstly, I wasn't referring to SA-MP cheating with that statement, I was referring to human nature in general. If you try and tell me you've not once made a poor decision or ever tried something risque; I'll instantly write you off as a terrible liar.

In my honest opinion, it's not a moral sin to cheat in a video-game. Yes, if you damage the experience of other players or gain an unfair advantage you should have your access rights removed, but it doesn't make you a bad person. You've taken this game to be a stronger representation of reality than it actually stands for if you choose to take part in the ideology that cheating is akin to breaking laws.