[GSRP]

Alright. So here recently, I have been browsing through different servers, checking out scripters, seeing what everyone does and what unique features may vary from server to server. After doing this for quite some time, I've noticed one major thing about this whole ordeal. There are many, many "scripters" out there. Everytime you are starting up a new gamemode, or trying to make something, you always rely on a "scripter" to help you, or most of the time, do it for you. When someone goes to a section in this forum, and asks for a scripter, or just a little help, that is what they are expecting, not for you to come off with some bullshit that you are a master scripter, and can do everything that, I dont know, say ****** of Calgon could do. Yes, I admit, I am no professional scripter, I cannot do or make half the things ****** or Calgon could make, but I know enough, to where if I have a bug, or I want to make a filterscript or something, I can do it. Yes, I still use guides, Yes, I still rely on outside sources to help me, but that only gives me more knowledge about scripting, and one day, I hope to be as good as Calgon or ******. But when you have people that go to the server advertisements section, and look for new servers that are opening up, and plan on going in there with such little knowledge about scripting, and asking to become their scripter, then if they let you, this is where you fall into 1 of these three categories, or possible more than 1:

Scripter: You know what you are doing, you intend on helping someone out that you know is incapable of doing it themselves, and enjoy doing the talent that you have to help others, for example, ****** and Calgon.

Script Kiddie: You know a little bit about scripting, but you don't have the capability of thinking of your own ideas, so what you do is go into another script, and just simply copy and paste thing out of there, and put it in your script.

Douche: You have some scripting knowledge, possibly up to the level of a script kiddie, you obtain someone script, backdoor it to where if they ever make you mad, you can fuck their server up, then all the sudden quit their server, because you, knowingly, can't make the things they expect you to make.

That concludes that issue about scripting, now lets head over to the gamemodes and new servers.

You come on SAMP forums, looking for a GM to star up a server with. And most of the time, people are using GF edits, or nowadays, NGRP edits, which, yes, I know, is a GF edit in the making. Well here are my thoughts on new servers opening up, using a GF/NGRP edit. There is NO POINT at all. Why? because the popular servers are already out there, running, with hundreds of players. They have the ORIGINAL script, with the players ORIGINAL stats, where they spent most of their time, so why would they leave behind everything they have on a popular server, to come to a dead server and lose everything? It just doesn't make any sense. Yes, you might get a player spike, of maybe 15-20 players, but guess what, they are gone within 20-30 minutes, and then what? You are stuck with a new server, that never gets any players, while you are using a GF/NGRP edit. So basically, if you want to shock and awe your players, you should learn to script, and make a GM from scratch. For example, I went into Underground Roleplay the other day, I was in shock and awe. That script was simply amazing, it did not look like an edit, but if it was, I am surprised, because the scripter there did an amazing job. Also, Dade County Roleplay, they have a very nice script, with total uniqueness to it. Getting to the point, if you are going to start up your own server, learn to script. Do not depend on another script to do your work, as it almost never works out, trust me. I have personal experience.

Oh yeah, and I almost forgot, I admit, I am contradicting myself here, as I own a server running a GF edit. And I will also admit, that my server will NEVER get anywhere. It's failing right now, it will be failing then. On the upside, I know how to script, no I am not professional, but I know how to get done what needs to be done. How did I learn? I taught myself, using a script, sa-mp wiki, and sa-mp forums.

In the end, my overall point here is, learn to script for yourself if you want something done right, and the way you want it done. Do NOT open a server running any kind of known edit, as most of these are over used and you will never get anywhere unless you make changes so drastically, that the GM is almost unseen. Don't be stupid and let your script fall into the wrong hands, as it could lead to the death of your server.

I hope this post makes some sense to those who know what I am talking about, and whether or not you agree with me, my point still stands, don't claim to be something you aren't, or take the credits of another persons work.

If you skipped all the way down to the bottom and didn't even read this, you should be ashamed of yourself

[SuperViper]

Gamemodes, filterscripts, and includes are all released to be used by other people, not to just sit there and have people say "Good job!" and move on. Sure, a decent server owner should be able to know what he's doing and have proper experience with modifying the script to the server's liking, but just because you're using someone else's work doesn't mean you're a script kiddie. As ****** stated before, the work is done already so by doing it from scratch you're just wasting time.

[Vince]

Hmm, I don't know. Most released scripts aren't exactly "top notch". I can open any one gamemode or filterscript and find tons of things that I could optimize or that I would have done entirely different. So I generally stick to doing things myself. Not a fan of libraries, no matter what any one (read: ******) might say.

[SuperViper]

I completely agree with you but work is still released to be used and if you can't do better (which some people can't) then they should use what's there.

[Glint]

Quote:

but work is still released to be used

Not exactley, not everybody releases scripts to be used by others, they may release it for reputation, gain more post count, it is rare to find people which release scripts to be used by others in a good way! (one of them is you i like your scripts they are very useful).

[GSRP]

Hmm...

SuperViper, I was looking at your svLibraries in your signature, and I noticed 'IsPlayerDrivingVehicle'. That is pretty much useless, as you could just use 'IsPlayerInAnyVehicle' and '!ispassenger' to check for that...

[admantis]

That's an accurate division of "/scripter/" types, certainly the viral problem in the SA:MP community is a vicious cicle that I call the "powerkid cicle". Thus, one kid joins a popular server, let's say LS:RP. Obviously such popular server create power, popularity and wealth for the owner, this kid would become jealous of LS:RP's success, and try to become a big server too, without attaching to the consequences, then failing after a void effort. Now, myself as a server developer and founder, it's not easy to satisfy all the +25 players you get with their queries regarding the script. You will get many bug reports and ideas every day, only with an unique, original script from scratch, but if you use a godfather original script, that amount will be tripled.

The OP made a point, wherein there are literally thousands of roleplay servers, and a vast majority of that amount are scripts based off Godfather or an outdated system that has the same things, same bugs, same glitches, same features than the other hundred Godfather servers, by consequence, that server will never be far unless it opened before 2010, such as PR:RP or LS:RP which are PEN1 edits, but due they opened before the Godfather 'invasion' and due all the time and popularity they had before they are big now.

My point is that if you are going to make a godfather server, get a time machine or only play with your friends for fun, becoming a good, but not requiredly popular server, with roughly +30 players daily, leave that to the scripters and not to the script kiddies or the leaders whose actions are based on deshonestity or the so called douches.

[SuperViper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSRP Hmm... SuperViper, I was looking at your svLibraries in your signature, and I noticed 'IsPlayerDrivingVehicle'. That is pretty much useless, as you could just use 'IsPlayerInAnyVehicle' and '!ispassenger' to check for that...

If you don't want to use the functions then don't use them. Not all of them are required, they're just added to make things a little bit easier. Maybe a beginner to scripting won't know how to do that and will just use IsPlayerDrivingVehicle instead, but regardless this isn't the place to discuss my work and what changes it needs.

On topic:

Beginners might find releases useful because they don't know what to do.

[Giovanni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperViper Beginners might find releases useful because they don't know what to do.

If they don't know what to do, they should not do it in the first place. Creating a server and uploading a pre-made script like GF or w/e without knowing how to script is one of the worst ideas you can have.


I liked your post GSRP. All I can say is that you are totally right with most of your statements. I was owner of some communities which were all about quite unique scripts. Those communities grew pretty fast and the average player count was also high (no hostedlist).

[Calgon]

Not sure why/how I keep getting mentioned in threads similar to these, I'm not that great of a scripter. I suppose it's nice to be mentioned like this in these threads, but I'm not really that bigheaded to agree and say I'm the best scripter ever (because frankly I'm not).

Once you get the basics of Pawn down, scripting things just comes down to logic and dedicating the time to it, or at least that's how I see it. If you really want to become great at scripting, you just need to dedicate the time to it. You don't have to be great at Maths, you don't have to be a magician, you just have to have the time and patience really, and be able to logically interpret stuff.

The script you use doesn't have a major impact on your playerbase, especially with roleplay servers. It depends on how you manage it mainly, but as long as you have the basics and a couple of somewhat impressive features then you're fine. You don't even have to make the best decisions for the players, you could make it a business and they could care less, but you need to be somewhat polite (or you could steal a playerbase from another community like NGG did) to have a successful server.

Plus, the saying, "you can't polish turd" generally isn't applicable to the GF script (or any scripts for that matter), you could make it in to an amazing script for the players if you put the time in.

Having a decent script with plenty of features is nice for players, but it isn't the most important factor for your players. Though it doesn't hurt to have active development for your server and it definitely doesn't hurt to implement a few nice features players will enjoy here and there.

This is my take on things, you might have a completely different opinion, but from what I've experienced, this seems like the most rational explanation of how to run a somewhat popular server.

I don't think there's really any need to label people 'script kiddies' or 'douches', if you can add 1 and 1 together and have the equipment to script (i.e. a computer, pawno, etc) then you can call yourself a scripter. The same way I can call myself an actor for reading a few lines out of a script, a musician for tapping a beat with my hands, a camera man for recording footage on my phone when I'm out, almost anything really...