[Danny]

I know many well-intended discussions have gone wrong here in the past but I'll give it a go.

Like many of you know we recently had some major development on the internet-privacy area when a (former) CIA-employee called Edward Snowden revealed the top-secret PRISM program, used by the American government to monitor the world's internet-activities. The American government claim this is part of the War Against Terrorists and that PRISM has proven to be successfull with the prevention of terrorist attacks.

But even if it is for a greater good, the question stays: Should governments have the right to monitor your internet activities? Does it concern you that maybe, someone somewhere on the world is watching you right now? I'd like to know your opinion. Personally I'm a little concerned about this cause you're never able to control what's happening with the collected data.

Btw, this is not intended to be a 'hate-to-america'-thread, so please don't get it wrong. In this case, a lot of countries received information from the PRISM-program, so they're all guilty when it comes to this.

[Gforcez]

Quote:

Yes, but only when it involves national security.

If they got a good reason.. (tracking terrorists or other criminals).

[linuxthefish]

I bet they don't care about all the people watching kiddie porn

[Pharaooh]

I've recently read an article about the US government spying your net activities and such by 'PRISM'. I still think it's a bad idea though.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...ng?INTCMP=SRCH

[RayW]

I honestly don't really know what to think about the program itself. I'm pretty sure it's unconstitutional as per the 4th amendment. However, during his campaign, Obama promised (guess what? He lied. Big surprise), that this would not happen. That is what pisses me off, personally.

[Danny]

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Originally Posted by linuxthefish I bet they don't care about all the people watching kiddie porn

Well I don't know, maybe they got seperate units for that or something, but I'm sure they are more focussed on terrorissm than on pedophiles. And to be honest I understand their choice. Terrorists have the potential to kill hundred thousands if they succeed. (with nuclear bombs for example)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharaooh I've recently read an article about the US government spying your net activities and such by 'PRISM'. I still think it's a bad idea though.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...ng?INTCMP=SRCH

I'm talking about that in the mainpost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayW I honestly don't really know what to think about the program itself. I'm pretty sure it's unconstitutional as per the 4th amendment. However, during his campaign, Obama promised (guess what? He lied. Big surprise), that this would not happen. That is what pisses me off, personally.

I don't really know a lot of the American constitution, but I'm quite sure something like PRISM isn't according to privacy rules. (since the American constitution is based on the idea's of the Enlightment)
I'm also a little bit confused. I realize it can be very valuable to track terrorists and other offenders but on the other hand it could easily be exploited for other means.

[GWMPT]

I totally think that when it is related with illegal activity, they could see the network activity of a user.
If they don't have any proof of illegal activity from that user, then they shouldn't see at all, the network activity, of the user.
Of course this isn't going to happen, since they're so retarded, they'll spy everything.

[[MM]IKKE]

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Originally Posted by RayW and I think I read something about these being limited to only foreign communications? I'd need to check on that.

I read it's constitutional because they're not scanning Americans, only foreigners. Your laws don't apply to us. But on the other hand, this does violate MY laws. I know they only scan the data going over American servers, but this is a huge grey zone of legality which should be discussed first.

What politicians are afraid of here (Belgium) and what happened before in former American programs, is economical spying. Don't have a certain valuable technique? Just scan the blueprints out of the company data and make it in your own country!

You can say that they are not allowed to do so. But that's where we get to my personal view. First of all, there is no control over this program. Maybe there is in the USA, but MY government cannot check what the USA is looking for, what data they use and on what purpose. There is not a single source outside of the USA which can check what the data is used for. All we have are words, and I honestly don't trust the USA enough with their words.

This is -in my opinion- very cocky of the USA to just "control the internet" as if they are the leaders of every single byte which passes over the internet (this is my internet usage over some days - http://i.imgur.com/eVqQhwB.jpg ). The USA government should NOT be allowed to scan my data for their own purposes. If it is in case of terrorist threats, pedophile networks or drug traffic, they should make the data available for other countries as well.

tl:dr I don't mind authorities scanning my internet traffic, as long as it has an international platform.

[Mauzen]

fiy: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...cument-argues/
Prism works so astonishing well, they saved over 20 foreign countries from being target of terrorist attacks!!! Great!

Hm, lets take a minute to analyze that publication. Once they knew there would be an attack, how did they prevent it? Here are some scenarios.
Maybe the terrorists were on american territory. Some officials arrested them then, and everything was fine. Except that proofs aquired from illegal actions mustnt be acceppted by any court, meaning the terrorists got no fair process, they were just put into jail or whatever, which in fact is a crime against humanity. And except that they obviously thought it wouldnt be neccessary to inform the target country that there were terrorists trying to attack them.
Maybe the terrorists were in some foreign country. How did they stop the terrorists then? Did they just send some officials to take care of the terrorists in some way? That would again violate international laws.

Maybe they indeed told the countries about the terrorists, so they could take care of them themselves. What did they tell them? "We got some reasons to think that this guy is a terrorist. Get him."? Or did they tell them about their illegal sources? Neither of these options would allow legal actions in the most countries.
In any way the country itself told their people nothing about the terrorist attacks, and everyone acts like they never heard about prism before.

Drawing a conclusion from this, either USA act like a secret international guardian angel, while commiting huge international crimes. Or all the (20+) target countries gave a shit about telling their people the truth, and even now the involved countries dont say anything about it (okay, that wouldnt be anything new).
Or, my preferred option, prism didnt prevent all these terrorist attacks, and its just some bad apology to make people think better about prism (covering up either incompetent agents or even more secret usages of prism, as some US politicians already said prism is "just the tip of the iceberg").

None of these options is a good one, the only sure thing is that theres (still/again) some shit cooking.

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Originally Posted by RayW With the information we know, it seems as though the actual contents of communications can not be looked at - ONLY if there is a search warrant issued, then the FBI (not the NSA) can get the contents of those communications. Apparently the only thing that is being recorded are call logs (phone numbers being called, duration), and I think I read something about these being limited to only foreign communications? I'd need to check on that.

Thats what they can do when following the legal path. Actually they got access to all internet traffic, which includes full phone calls, and are cooperating with certain internet services to get fast access to certain data. All this is not limited to search warrants or foreign communications.
And please dont say we cant trust Snowden. USA wouldnt start an international hunt if he wouldnt say the truth, and most of the stuff has already been confirmed by officials.

[[MM]IKKE]

Bumping this with my own comment, seriously pissed off at the cockiness of the USA's & the UK's security services.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [MM]IKKE What politicians are afraid of here (Belgium) and what happened before in former American programs, is economical spying. Don't have a certain valuable technique? Just scan the blueprints out of the company data and make it in your own country! You can say that they are not allowed to do so. But that's where we get to my personal view. First of all, there is no control over this program. Maybe there is in the USA, but MY government cannot check what the USA is looking for, what data they use and on what purpose. There is not a single source outside of the USA which can check what the data is used for. All we have are words, and I honestly don't trust the USA enough with their words.

http://gigaom.com/2014/02/01/nsa-and...rapher-report/

The NSA has infected the home computer of an internationally reputed cryptographer, who is not even close to any terroristic activities. This is the first known case of a single person getting aimed at by the NSA since the Snowden leaks. I hope the people of the USA will now stand up against these practices, there is NOT A SINGLE WAY to justify spying on scientists under the cover of National Security! We're your ALLIES, USA & UK, so why in God's name do you feel the need to be such a fucking cunt towards us?