General misconception of the "Database" meaning.

General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Printable Version

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General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Eony - 16.08.2012

I have been browsing the SA:MP forums alot lately, mostly reading people's comments, and found that most people is having a curious misconception of what a database is. Here are a few examples :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burridge

[...] However with a large playerbase saving data to a database rather than text files is probably a faster option. I must stress however that this post may not be accurate or correct, as I only work with MySQL/SQLite, and not ini systems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y_Less

It is based on files, but with DB style features for looking up things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_

It depends on the data you're loading / saving, how much of it there is, and the type of data. If, for example, it was a user account system for a popular server, then databases generally are much faster so therefore it would be BUD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y_Less

It really does depend. y_ini is optimised for loading a load of continuous data from a file, databases are much better at pulling different chunks of data from different places and combining them.

"Database rather than text files", "files but with database-style features"

Both are a perfect example for this misconception, let me explain :

There are two main types of databases used in programming, no matter what the language is :
Flat-File

Relational

- Flat-File databases are a type of data storage structure that relays on files. As long as you are storing data in "plain" (Yet following a pattern) text files, that is called a database.

- Relational databases are what they (quotes above) apparently think as being the only database type (These are mostly known as SQL databases, so I guess I don't need to go through any further explanations).

A database is, in short, a structure you follow when storing and gathering information. It can be SQL, but let's not forget that files can also form databases.

More info here, here and here.

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - MP2 - 16.08.2012

Who caresssssss

Go outside pls

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Arca - 16.08.2012

I couldn't care less.

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Nicholas. - 16.08.2012

No need to be like that guys.

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - [ABK]Antonio - 16.08.2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP2

Who caresssssss

Go outside pls

What he said was a valid point. There is a large misconception about what databases are.

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Sniper Kitty - 16.08.2012

The official SQL tutorial calls them Databases, therefore your logic is futile.

http://www.w3schools.com/SQL

Quote:

SQL is a standard language for accessing databases.

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - [ABK]Antonio - 16.08.2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper Kitty

The official SQL tutorial calls them Databases, therefore your logic is futile.

http://www.w3schools.com/SQL

Did you even read the thread?

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Sniper Kitty - 16.08.2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by [ABK]Antonio

Did you even read the thread?

Yeah he pointed out the two different database types, Flat-File and Relational.

My point was that in the SQL tutorial it doesn't specifically say that their Relational databases it just says their databases, so his logic is futile (pointless, incase you didn't know what futile means).

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - playbox12 - 16.08.2012

You are absolutely right, a database is just an organised collection of data however in SA-MP when we're talking about database we usally mean the database management system behind it like MySQL or SQLlite.

If you answer a question in the scripting help section to some new guy that is figuring out what to use (usally "dini or shuld i use database but it hard?") you don't start about the difference between database types and how they are applied. You simply answer with that a database is better in this case because .... the member will understand and go with one of the two mysql plugins. However your point is valid.

And guys you don't have to be rude because he quoted Y_Less and said he had a misconception..

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Sinner - 16.08.2012

Context is just as important as the actual meaning of the word "Database". In SA-MP, as playboy12 explained, we generally distinguish data saving structures as either "file systems" (dini, y_ini, ...) and databases (MySQL, SQLite, ...) therefore what the defenition of "Database" IS, is not of importance--as in, we don't need to know the specific categories to explain our problem.

In another environment you may be discussing the difference between relational systems, flat files, ... in which case you may want to specify, but again, we don't need to do that here.

I can understand your point though, sometimes it gets confusing when everyone starts calling any type of data-saving a database.

Re : General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Eony - 16.08.2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by playbox12

You are absolutely right, a database is just an organised collection of data however in SA-MP when we're talking about database we usally mean the database management system behind it like MySQL or SQLlite.

If you answer a question in the scripting help section to some new guy that is figuring out what to use (usally "dini or shuld i use database but it hard?") you don't start about the difference between database types and how they are applied. You simply answer with that a database is better in this case because .... the member will understand and go with one of the two mysql plugins. However your point is valid.

And guys you don't have to be rude because he quoted Y_Less and said he had a misconception..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinner

Context is just as important as the actual meaning of the word "Database". In SA-MP, as playboy12 explained, we generally distinguish data saving structures as either "file systems" (dini, y_ini, ...) and databases (MySQL, SQLite, ...) therefore what the defenition of "Database" IS, is not of importance--as in, we don't need to know the specific categories to explain our problem.

In another environment you may be discussing the difference between relational systems, flat files, ... in which case you may want to specify, but again, we don't need to do that here.

I can understand your point though, sometimes it gets confusing when everyone starts calling any type of data-saving a database.

Yup, I noticed that, I actually was thinking about that as I was writing this. I guess it's simply an habit in the SA-MP community, and those who do know that it's wrong just follow the habit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper Kitty

I was not talking about SQL databases, I was talking about relational databases, SQL DBs are part of them, but not the only ones. You're totally right in saying it was pointless, since the only relational DBs used in SA-MP are SQL, but I prefer being as general as I can.

Re: Re : General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Y_Less - 16.08.2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eony

I prefer being as general as I can.

In that case make sure you also differentiate between computer databases (SQL, NoSQL, flat-file, ORM), and paper databases (folders, filing cabinets etc) as well.

I do agree that the first quote from me was a poor one though, but I was (as others have said) trying to explain it in terms other people here know and understand.

I have thought that a NoSQL plugin would be very handy, as most people here really don't take any advantage of 90% of SQLs ability, they merely seem to use (SQL) databases as a "faster" key-value pair store. If you're going to do that, you may as well use a system explicitly designed to do that.

Re : Re: Re : General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Eony - 16.08.2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y_Less

(SQL, NoSQL, flat-file, ORM)

ORM is not a database, it's a technique

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y_Less

I do agree that the first quote from me was a poor one though, but I was (as others have said) trying to explain it in terms other people here know and understand.

I understand that, I guess people are just too used to simply calling SQL databases "databases", which is why I made this topic, it's not much of a big deal anyways, just wanted to express myself in the subject

___________

For all those who insulted me, and generally disliked this : I apologize if you felt I was being arrogant here, my intentions weren't bad at all, I was simply giving my opinion on the subject.

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Y_Less - 16.08.2012

SQL is a language, NoSQL is a lack of a language, so really they're not databases either.

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Steven82 - 17.08.2012

I'm off topic but this really is a useless topic. This board and community is about SA-MP. We may use different "terminology" or use the same terminology but use it in different meaning than other programming forums/boards/websites/etc, why? -- Because we can really. As long as someone else knows what the other person or people is/are talking about then we're fine.

Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - MP2 - 17.08.2012

If there was a topic for every 'misconception' the forum would explode.

Re : Re: General misconception of the "Database" meaning. - Eony - 17.08.2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven82

I'm off topic but this really is a useless topic. This board and community is about SA-MP. We may use different "terminology" or use the same terminology but use it in different meaning than other programming forums/boards/websites/etc, why? -- Because we can really. As long as someone else knows what the other person or people is/are talking about then we're fine.

Yup, I agree with that, no need to complicate ourselves right? Changing the habits of a whole community is hard anyways, and in this case, pointless. But once again, I just wanted to express myself in the subject